Creating a reputation

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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby Scarapis » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:44 pm

MagickalMemories wrote:Sorrow is dead on about that. If you have two or more people not leave you references in a row -especially if they are established traders- you should start looking inwards for the problem... and BEG them to give you feedback, even if only privately, on what you did wrong.

I didn't say that not getting a ref is the same as getting a negative. Not at all. I said some people will see a NEUTRAL on a new trader as being a bad sign. There's a difference.

Frankly, Scarapis, we won't be installing a counter as you suggest and, frankly, you should not want one.
If I see someone who has left, say, 50 references but has only received 40 in return, I am going to wonder why 20% of their trading partners chose not to leave a reference (per my explanation above). It will make me more hesitant to trade with them and FAR less likely to want to ship or pay first, regardless of their ref score.

Although we rely heavily on a reference score here, and encourage everyone to use it, it is -as I said- optional. As such, Bartertown will not do anything to require it in any way (including the holding hostage of references left for a trader until he reciprocates) or to measure the # of references left vs. received. The reference measurement style, methods and ratio that we have in place -and have had in place since 1996) have served us well for 18 years with only ONE change (neutrals were, at one point, worth a single point, rather than none). There is no good reason for us to change things now.

Eric



but what if it is not? say if I got a handful of traders who did not leave rep, I would not consider it a problem on my end, for the mere fact that I have thousands upon thousands of feedback on other sites, hell my eBay feedback is 100% positive for both selling and buying, which is a big feat to begin with. another site I have a perfect record of feedback for selling, never in my life have I had people have problems with my selling or shipping or anything, and there in lies the issue, if I've done a handful of trades with people and I've left feedback for them, yet they leave none for me, because they cannot be bothered to, then that reflects poorly on me even though undeserved, so why even bother with the rep program ?


(by the way this is a what if scenario, I only have one trade/purchase in progress here at this time)
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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby s_o_r_r_o_w » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:57 pm

Scarapis wrote:
but what if it is not? say if I got a handful of traders who did not leave rep, I would not consider it a problem on my end, for the mere fact that I have thousands upon thousands of feedback on other sites, hell my eBay feedback is 100% positive for both selling and buying, which is a big feat to begin with. another site I have a perfect record of feedback for selling, never in my life have I had people have problems with my selling or shipping or anything, and there in lies the issue, if I've done a handful of trades with people and I've left feedback for them, yet they leave none for me, because they cannot be bothered to, then that reflects poorly on me even though undeserved, so why even bother with the rep program ?


(by the way this is a what if scenario, I only have one trade/purchase in progress here at this time)


It's a pointless "what if".

I can't imagine a circumstance where a trader here would go 10 trades with no feedback left for him/her, unless there was a problem.

The community here is pretty good to excellent, overall.
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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby Scarapis » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:59 pm

s_o_r_r_o_w wrote:
Scarapis wrote:
but what if it is not? say if I got a handful of traders who did not leave rep, I would not consider it a problem on my end, for the mere fact that I have thousands upon thousands of feedback on other sites, hell my eBay feedback is 100% positive for both selling and buying, which is a big feat to begin with. another site I have a perfect record of feedback for selling, never in my life have I had people have problems with my selling or shipping or anything, and there in lies the issue, if I've done a handful of trades with people and I've left feedback for them, yet they leave none for me, because they cannot be bothered to, then that reflects poorly on me even though undeserved, so why even bother with the rep program ?


(by the way this is a what if scenario, I only have one trade/purchase in progress here at this time)


It's a pointless "what if".

I can't imagine a circumstance where a trader here would go 10 trades with no feedback left for him/her, unless there was a problem.

The community here is pretty good to excellent, overall.



but that's the situation of the OP here, he has several deals hes been involved with and paid with PP yet has no rep, how would you explain that?
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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby pretre » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:05 pm

"unless there was a problem."
People who owe me feedback: Readingrambo, steellegioncpt, Bigheaddan, Inigo Montoya, Mournafein,TheDean, Palados, Arthas367, gamma098, xSoulgrinderx x2, litsnsirn, noexit1982, Captaincortez, lafkak, Aelorien Darkthorn, clianez203, Hsivils, rwphillipsstl, prkeller, Close Seer, Jkilla, Keyoftwilight, proofyeq, voodoopainter.

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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby s_o_r_r_o_w » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:13 pm

Scarapis wrote:but that's the situation of the OP here, he has several deals hes been involved with and paid with PP yet has no rep, how would you explain that?


He's never been back to quantify "several", and, as MM pointed out, he's only been on for a month.

Plus--who are his trade partners? Fellow low level traders? Have they read his PMs?
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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby MagickalMemories » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:05 pm

Scarapis wrote:but what if it is not? say if I got a handful of traders who did not leave rep, I would not consider it a problem on my end, for the mere fact that I have thousands upon thousands of feedback on other sites, hell my eBay feedback is 100% positive for both selling and buying, which is a big feat to begin with. another site I have a perfect record of feedback for selling, never in my life have I had people have problems with my selling or shipping or anything, and there in lies the issue, if I've done a handful of trades with people and I've left feedback for them, yet they leave none for me, because they cannot be bothered to, then that reflects poorly on me even though undeserved, so why even bother with the rep program ?


(by the way this is a what if scenario, I only have one trade/purchase in progress here at this time)


Some of this might sound a bit haughty or snippy. It's not. I promise.
I'm just trying to impart facts.

Your reputation on other sites is not necessarily a reflection of what it will be here. In my experience, and the experience of many established Bartertowners, other sites do not have the same expectations as we have here. While we don't micromanage the specifics of your trade, we do have a number of rules that can seem a bit pedantic. Our expectations are elevated in comparison to most other sites. For example, no other site I know of has a specific written rule (last I checked) that states the seller is responsible for accurately describing his items, regardless of what the buyer does and does not ask (Buyer and seller can be exchanged with recipient and sender). It is not an "Oops. You should have asked about the condition of the models! environment here. It's the exact opposite. Our rules enforce the expectation that a seller/sender will be up front about his stuff and not try to hide behind blurry images and half-@ssed descriptions in hopes of duping someone.
So, while your 10 hypothetical trades on The Miniatures Page (just throwing out their name - I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ANY TRADING RULES THEY MIGHT HAVE ARE) might have been fine, it's quite possible that it's because TMP doesn't have the same standards that our members have come to expect. The same thing goes on eBay. Post a picture and, as long as that's what you provide, you're fairly well covered (with obvious exceptions).
It's not impossible to have a great rating elsewhere and a lesser one here. Not at all.

I hope that clarifies a bit.

Eric
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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby Scarapis » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:15 am

MagickalMemories wrote:
Scarapis wrote:but what if it is not? say if I got a handful of traders who did not leave rep, I would not consider it a problem on my end, for the mere fact that I have thousands upon thousands of feedback on other sites, hell my eBay feedback is 100% positive for both selling and buying, which is a big feat to begin with. another site I have a perfect record of feedback for selling, never in my life have I had people have problems with my selling or shipping or anything, and there in lies the issue, if I've done a handful of trades with people and I've left feedback for them, yet they leave none for me, because they cannot be bothered to, then that reflects poorly on me even though undeserved, so why even bother with the rep program ?


(by the way this is a what if scenario, I only have one trade/purchase in progress here at this time)


Some of this might sound a bit haughty or snippy. It's not. I promise.
I'm just trying to impart facts.

Your reputation on other sites is not necessarily a reflection of what it will be here. In my experience, and the experience of many established Bartertowners, other sites do not have the same expectations as we have here. While we don't micromanage the specifics of your trade, we do have a number of rules that can seem a bit pedantic. Our expectations are elevated in comparison to most other sites. For example, no other site I know of has a specific written rule (last I checked) that states the seller is responsible for accurately describing his items, regardless of what the buyer does and does not ask (Buyer and seller can be exchanged with recipient and sender). It is not an "Oops. You should have asked about the condition of the models! environment here. It's the exact opposite. Our rules enforce the expectation that a seller/sender will be up front about his stuff and not try to hide behind blurry images and half-@ssed descriptions in hopes of duping someone.
So, while your 10 hypothetical trades on The Miniatures Page (just throwing out their name - I DO NOT KNOW WHAT ANY TRADING RULES THEY MIGHT HAVE ARE) might have been fine, it's quite possible that it's because TMP doesn't have the same standards that our members have come to expect. The same thing goes on eBay. Post a picture and, as long as that's what you provide, you're fairly well covered (with obvious exceptions).
It's not impossible to have a great rating elsewhere and a lesser one here. Not at all.

I hope that clarifies a bit.

Eric


Actually one of the sites I have over 1K feedback on is very strict in description of items since it deals with LEGO and they are very picky in shape, condition and so forth, as it goes from what I've seen your site is along most site guidelines when it comes to item description, even eBay thru PP has such strict rules.
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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby MagickalMemories » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:54 pm

Please, don't feel as if I was ignoring your comment. I just got back from a NYC vacation.

Forgetting eBay, as it is a very different animal, look at other "gaming" forums that happen to allow trading: Dakka (which I use and enjoy), Warseer (do they still allow trades?), etc. It is very much a 'buyer beware" or reactive environment out there.

Regardless, to stick with my initial comment (only using you as an example because you did first), your 1K+ reputation on the Lego site, while nice, is not considered a guarantee of how you will trade here. I have seen plenty of traders with good reputations here go to other sites and cause problems because they did not follow the same kind of guidelines there as they are expected to here.

Either way, welcome... and I like that you're taking an interest.

Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby porkuslime » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:09 pm

Yeah.. I am a real riot on other trade boards...
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

I use the Unofficial Porkuslime Trading Guidelines - if you have way less refs.. you ship first.

Folks I am awaiting a ref from.. Zack

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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby Plarz » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:26 am

I realize I'm coming to this three months late, but I have something to add from a security / administration stand point.

Identity theft is a thing. Say there's a well known and reputable eBay seller. Someone wants to scam off their rep and makes an account here with a close-enough name and starts advertising a special discount, referencing the eBay store's feedback to establish legitimacy. Before people can realize it, this person has not only stolen money from people who thought they were dealing with an established identity, but now Bartertown is in trouble for not having safeguards in place to prevent that sort of thing.

Not being able to use outside references is that safeguard. (There are others as well, but that's besides the point.) Its both a good and a bad thing.

Secondly, a counter for feedback left is just as abusable. A scammer creates an account, leaves a bunch of feedback on random users, complains about never getting good feedback, and then shows the history as proof of good intentions. This is an extreme example with several plot holes, but you get my point. Not only is that an avenue for fraudulent and devious behavior, its a mess to clean up from an administrative stand point.

Thus, a counter for feedback left, and even searching for someone's feedback they have left isn't something we're missing.

Not trying to further beat the horse, just offering a different point of view that hadn't been shared. This is the kind of stuff I have to think about.

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Re: Creating a reputation

Postby Scarapis » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:56 am

Plarz wrote:I realize I'm coming to this three months late, but I have something to add from a security / administration stand point.

Identity theft is a thing. Say there's a well known and reputable eBay seller. Someone wants to scam off their rep and makes an account here with a close-enough name and starts advertising a special discount, referencing the eBay store's feedback to establish legitimacy. Before people can realize it, this person has not only stolen money from people who thought they were dealing with an established identity, but now Bartertown is in trouble for not having safeguards in place to prevent that sort of thing.

Not being able to use outside references is that safeguard. (There are others as well, but that's besides the point.) Its both a good and a bad thing.

Secondly, a counter for feedback left is just as abusable. A scammer creates an account, leaves a bunch of feedback on random users, complains about never getting good feedback, and then shows the history as proof of good intentions. This is an extreme example with several plot holes, but you get my point. Not only is that an avenue for fraudulent and devious behavior, its a mess to clean up from an administrative stand point.

Thus, a counter for feedback left, and even searching for someone's feedback they have left isn't something we're missing.

Not trying to further beat the horse, just offering a different point of view that hadn't been shared. This is the kind of stuff I have to think about.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



yes Identity theft is a very real thing (having been the victim of it) but its also very easy to check out a persons credntials on another site like e-mailing them or such on that site and asking if they are the one talking to here. as to how I handle things on other sites, I handle everything the same way and no matter what site I go to there is never a complaint, but that is because I put myself in the place of the buyer and ask myself how would I want my package to arrive ? or how fast would i like it shipped? and so on and so on.
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