So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts.

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by hapotte » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:42 am

3eland wrote:Am I missing some sort of reply or are you just replying to yourself?
:lol: I had to explain to my GF why I suddently Started laughing! Good one 3E.
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by psiekier » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:01 pm

3eland wrote:Am I missing some sort of reply or are you just replying to yourself?
I got tired of waiting for nightlord to show up and continue the conversation. For all I know, he's over there furiously scribbling notes and trying to figure out my math; we can post army lists here, but traditionally BT has frowned on including the points values for the units.

It started with the discussion in that other thread that centered around an Eldar army I had faced in an 1850 point tournament. By removing enough things from that army and injecting the required two full-strength Troops units nightlord specified, I thought I could recreate that nightmare in a 1500 point list. I even toyed with that "six marines in a Razorback is a full-strength Troops choice" business he cited as it might appply to the Eldar, but a Wave Serpent has a transport capacity of 12 and costs more than just adding eight additional Panzees to bring a Guardian squad to full strength.

After that (notice difference between the timestamps), I started thinking about some of the other armies I saw that day. I got my butt handed to me by an Imperial Guard army centered around a massive Baneblade Super-Heavy Tank, so I took a stab at that, and threw in the obligatory (at least to me) Space Marine army that gambles on the effectiveness of the Skyhammer Annihilation Force formation.

All I had left was to show that Blood Angels really can't be effectively cheesy without some kind of ally contingent unless you want to go crazy with Flesh Tearers in drop pods.
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by 3eland » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:19 pm

Ah I see.

I thought maybe someone was replying but had me on their foe list so I couldn't see it.

Carry on!

:D

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by psiekier » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:15 pm

3eland wrote:I thought maybe someone was replying but had me on their foe list so I couldn't see it.
I was trying to come up with a joke about Tau Optimized Stealth Cadres making their way through the thread unseen, but they're not one of the armies listed in the OP.

I've been on Bartertown on and off for almost 20 years now, and I have never put anyone on my "foes" list. I suppose I might be on someone else's list, but ... how would I know?

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:18 pm

psiekier wrote:traditionally BT has frowned on including the points values for the units.
For the record, that's inaccurate. Post those points. It's okay here.
Other sites frown on point break downs far more than we do. We're about "the law," not about keeping GW off of our backs. There is nothing illegal about you posting your point breakdowns in your thread.
Heck, if you were doing it within the limitations allowed by law, you could post rules, stat lines, etc... But the more you post, the trickier it gets.
If you stick to posting lists and points, we're not going to say Jack about it. : )

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by nightlord » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:39 am

I got tired of waiting for nightlord to show up and continue the conversation. For all I know, he's over there furiously scribbling notes and trying to figure out my math; we can post army lists here, but traditionally BT has frowned on including the points values for the units.



Well I'm not Scribbling notes as you put it. All I'm trying to do is get a fresh look at the game through other peoples eyes.
And FYI ive been playing 40K since Rogue Trader. Ive played in tournies from Texas to Georgia , As far north as Philly and all across the Deep south. I have pro painted for several people on this site and even helped run a site back in the day. I have 8 fully painted armies and enough to build 8 more. Several of my personal armies have been sold all over the world. Including Arab Royalty.

But here in Southern Louisiana we still host Rogue Trader style 40K tournies. and we have 20 spots available per tourney, We host a tourney every third month on the second Saturday of that month. We still Award,Best Painted, Best Army, Best sportsman, Best General, and Over all. The shop takes in 20 per person for prizes, Half for that day of game and half saved for the Tourney of Champions in December. Which consist of all the winners.

People come from all over to play in these tournies. And GW says no one is interested in these kind of tournies any more. BAHHH!!!

But it seems the locals have gotten into a bad habit of playing follow the Leader. So I figured If someone had a Fresh Idea I might take it on, add my own twist to it , and use it in one of the tournies.

But I'm building a deathwing army now, And plan on using it next tourney. SOOO. Don't let your head get toooo Big. I was Just looking for a fresh idea. ;p
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by psiekier » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:25 pm

nightlord wrote:People come from all over to play in these tournies. And GW says no one is interested in these kind of tournies any more. BAHHH!!!
Texas Toy Soldier over in Carrollton runs tournaments the first Saturday of every month, and they are always full. However, as we discussed in that other thread, everybody brought their "Win At All Costs!" armies, as there was store credit on the line for the victors.

Still as you noted, tournaments like these are invariably a fun time, even if, as a Blood Angels player, I'm doomed to reside at the bottom (there were no Adepta Sororitas armies at TTS).
nightlord wrote:But it seems the locals have gotten into a bad habit of playing follow the Leader. So I figured If someone had a Fresh Idea I might take it on, add my own twist to it , and use it in one of the tournies.
The Internet has had a disgusting hand in this. All one would have to do is Google for the winning armies in the bigger national tournaments, and you're virtually guaranteed to see somebody with a least a derivation of one of those armies in any tournament of any size you attend. In fact, I know there are people who - artistically done or not - actually buy and paint armies based on the cheesiest 'net lists they can find.

That being said, it doesn't take a genius (like those HR Block commercials) to figure out that squeezing three Riptides into a Tau army gives you a pretty good shot ... no pun intended.
nightlord wrote:But I'm building a deathwing army now, And plan on using it next tourney. SOOO. Don't let your head get toooo Big. I was Just looking for a fresh idea. ;p
Right away, I was thinking about the Deathwing Redemption Force special formation. However, even if Belial is your commander, Deathwing units are still considered Elite choices instead of Troops. The "minimum two full strength Troops" tournament rule (I like that rule!) means you'd either have to take a second formation, paying for an additional HQ at a minimum, or throw out the Deathwing Redemption Force altogether. I'd like to squeeze in a Nephilim Jet Fighter either way, but that has the potential to leave you even more badly outnumbered than normal:

Combined Arms Detachment:
Techmarine (1 model) with plasma pistol [HQ] - 80 pts
Tactical Squad (10 models) with missile launcher and flakk missiles [Troops] - 165 pts
Tactical Squad (10 models) with plasma gun and grav-cannon w/ grav-amp [Troops] - 190 pts

Deathwing Redemption Force:
Company Master (1 model) with terminator armour and relic blade [HQ] - 130 pts
Deathwing Command Squad (5 models) with apothecary, champion, and assault cannon [Elite] - 230 pts
Deathwing Terminator Squad (5 models) with assault cannon [Elite] - 220 pts
Deathwing Terminator Squad (5 models) with assault cannon [Elite] - 220 pts
Deathwing Terminator Squad (5 models) with 5 TH/SS and Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven [Elite] - 265 pts

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by Kolobius » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:24 pm

[quote="psiekier"]C'mon, Eric, nightlord is inviting us to think like "Win At All Cost" jerks here. :twisted:

Guardian Defenders (20 models) [Troops]
Rangers (10 models) [Troops]


I wanna know why the rangers and guardians? I thought this was a cheese list? That's a huge waste of points.

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by psiekier » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:26 am

Kolobius wrote:
psiekier wrote:C'mon, Eric, nightlord is inviting us to think like "Win At All Cost" jerks here. :twisted:
Guardian Defenders (20 models) [Troops]
Rangers (10 models) [Troops]
I wanna know why the rangers and guardians? I thought this was a cheese list? That's a huge waste of points.
One of the roolz set out by the tournament organizers is that every army must contain at least two full-strength units of Troops. For an Eldar army, your choices are Guardians (180 for a squad of 20), Rangers (120 for a squad of 10), Dire Avengers (130 for a squad of 10), or Windriders (170 for a squad of 10).

Yes, the Rangers would be the cheapest at 120 points per squad, but you'd get twice as many models with a unit of 20 Guardians... and hopefully some tactical flexibility with that as well. Ideally, I'd want to have as many Windriders with heavy weapons in the army as I could squeeze in, but replacing those Guardians with a third unit of Windriders means I'd only have 10 points left over (since the Windriders would then have to be a maximum-sized unit of 10), and that only buys one big shoota. Dropping the Guardians for a 10-man squad of Rangers instead leaves me with a 60 point savings - barely enough to add one more heavy weapon bike to each of my two existing Windrider squads.

Edited To Add:
In case it wasn't clear, the big features of this army were the heavy weapon jetbike squads and especially the two Wraithknights. The only way I could squeeze both Wraithknights (Lord of War choices) into the army was to take two Combined Arms Detachments, meaning I'd need a minimum of two HQ's and four Troops - two of which are required to be at full strength. Additionally, I wanted one detachment to include a shooty flyer (Imperial Knights beware!), so I also set points aside for that.

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by nightlord » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:45 am

I have my Eldar list using windriders as troops selection instead. But I still use rangers for filler points left over. But recently our tourney organizers is allowing people to use formations and no more 2 maxed out troops selections required. We just get dinged on Army Comp Points. So I lose 2 points from the judge. So my Deathwing Army is all 22 termis, a dread and raven wing.

Although I wish I had kept my wraith knight now, that list with 2 wraith knights made my mouth water.
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by psiekier » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:58 pm

nightlord wrote:I have my Eldar list using windriders as troops selection instead. But I still use rangers for filler points left over.
Now that I've had more time to think about it, 10 Windriders may be more of a threat than 20 Guardians, even if the Windriders are not armed with heavy weapons. Unlike Space Marine Bike Squadrons, though, Windrider squads may not split up when at full strength. This could limit their effectiveness in taking objectives. That they get "Objective Secured" for being Troops choices in a Combined Arms Detachment could go a long way, though...
nightlord wrote:But recently our tourney organizers is allowing people to use formations and no more 2 maxed out troops selections required. We just get dinged on Army Comp Points. So I lose 2 points from the judge.
That's something I miss, even if it was pretty subjective. At Texas Toy Soldier, it's all about winning and there are no army composition or painting scores. The only "out" is that every player who brings a fully-painted army is entered for a chance to win a prize.

One other thing I did see that was enacted after the tournament I played in was a restriction on duplicate formations. You couldn't, for example, take two Combined Arms Detachments angling for multiple Lord of War units any more. That was a pretty neat rule, too.
nightlord wrote:So my Deathwing Army is all 22 termis, a dread and raven wing.
Are you using the Deathwing Redemption Force? If you put a Venerable Dreadnought in a drop pod, they can all magically show up on the turn you specify.
nightlord wrote:Although I wish I had kept my wraith knight now, that list with 2 wraith knights made my mouth water.
The smaller the game gets, the more influential big pieces like super-heavies and gargantuan creatures become. Reducing the size of the game from 1850 to 1500 while keeping two Wraithknights in the army makes it highly unlikely your opponent will be able to effectively counter them both.

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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by nightlord » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:06 am

The smaller the game gets, the more influential big pieces like super-heavies and gargantuan creatures become. Reducing the size of the game from 1850 to 1500 while keeping two Wraithknights in the army makes it highly unlikely your opponent will be able to effectively counter them both.

Yeahh harder for opponents to fight against, but when your opponent gives you crap scores for army comp and or sportsmen ship, then it makes it harder for you to recover points in the end. We still strive for balance and such.

Fortunately I paint well enough to get love points from both judges and opponents :-P

NOw if I can add a touch of "cheese" with out being over powering with it , this could put me on top.

Ive been doing well with Guard so far. Now I'm doing Deathwing second founding all in black next, just cause ive never had a black army before, Then its a demi company army of marines. MUHAHAHAAA... :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by Frankenberry » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:55 am

Cheesiest list for 1500, man, you're going to make me cry.

Guard
Pask-Punisher w/camo netting and HB sponsons
Pask buddy Executioner w/camo netting and PC sponsons

3x Veteran Squads in Chimeras, 2 squads with 2x meltas, 1 squad with 2x plasmas

Vendetta

Wyvern w/camo netting
Wyvern w/camo netting
Leman Russ Exterimnator with hull lascannon
Leman Russ Eradicator with hull HB

Notes: 1475 total, can drop a veteran squad and take a second vendetta which will make it an even 1500. Not super spammy, but gives you enough damage across multiple avenues and ranges with plenty of scary weapons - lots of volume and some ignores cover sprinkled in. Veterans can be dropped entire in favor of blobs (not my thing though)if they tend to perform better for you.


Blood Angels- strictly speaking I can't really build a cheese list with these guys, but I'll try given what I've seen from others/my own experience.

Librarian lvl2 w/gallians on a bike
Sanguinary Priest w/valors edge, extra weapon (BP), on a bike

3 DC squads, 7x marines, 1PF and 1PW per squad

2 max scout squads, 1 with sniper rifles and cloaks, 1 with ccw/bp

Bike squad, 5x marines, 2x meltas (can be swapped for grav's if that's your thing), sergeant has PF

Land Raider - stormbolter

Notes: Stick the ccw/bp scouts in the raider and aim for something they can butcher, jump around with DC and hammer scarier units, bike squad runs around with libby and priest beating the unholy snot out of anything super scary (within reason, Space Wolves will still chew through these guys). Thing is about BA is that we don't have access to anything real scary as far as shooting to keep the enemy's heads down. We have to be decisive when we deploy our units and aim for the most devastation in the shortest amount of time. I've found that the formation in the codex works great (+1 on the charge is pretty spiffy)and generally that's all I need to get to grips with the enemy.

Again, BA suffers from several different flaws (none of which I'll get into here)but we can make the enemy pay if we force them to deal with multiple threats across a wide front. Guard don't really suffer from this, despite the nerf to vehicles on the whole in this edition. They can still bring large amounts of dakka to the fight and their infantry is still some of the cheapest way to bring mass heavy and special weapons.
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by skuller » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:07 pm

my skyblight army
2 gargoyles brood with a flyrant formation
2 brood of nekkid termagants
2 flyrants
3 hive crone
something nice and cheesy
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Re: So whats your cheesist army you can build useing 1500pts

Post by psiekier » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:52 pm

Frankenberry wrote:Blood Angels- strictly speaking I can't really build a cheese list with these guys
Maybe this is sidestepping the whole point of this thread, but:

Combined Arms Detachment - Blood Angels Faction
Techmarine (Warlord) w/ two Servitors
Tactical Squad w/ Plasma Gun
Tactical Squad w/ Lascannon

allied with...

Baronial Court - Imperial Knights Faction
Knight Paladin w/ Meltagun and Stormspear Rocket Pod
Knight Paladin w/ Meltagun and Icarus Autocannon
Knight Warden w/ Meltagun and Stormspear Rocket Pod

Because Blood Angel Techmarines cost only 50 points instead of the 65 Codex chapters pay (for which you gain a power axe, an extra point of Ballistic Skill, and an additional Wound), it's exactly 1500 points.

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