GW Claims IP Violation, EBAY closes Auctions, opinions...

[MEDEVL]

I'm not trying to stray off topic because I think that you have good cause to feel slighted and I absolutely HATE the stance that GW has adopted on IP (they are going to protect it literally to their graves if they aren't careful as their stranglehold alienates far more business than it saves.)

That said the most entertaining part to me about all of this is that all the while they are cutting staff, closing stores and scaling back new releases they still manage to have somebody trolling Ebay for guys selling home-made shoulder pads. That speaks so loudly as to the nature of that company.

"Hey get those guys who used to playtest the rules and have them scan the interwebs for people making cool stuff to go with our games that we don't even make ourselves. That way they aren't undermining our crappy, flaw-ridden rules systems with their mini add-ons."

Good luck with your quest for vindication. I wholeheartedly wish somebody...ANYBODY, would stand up to them. I've said 'til I'm blue in the face that's is a joke for a company to so vehemently protect "their" IP when there are soooo many instances of them stealing it from other sources to begin with.

Sentinal=Star Wars scout walker
'Nids= Aliens from Gieger
Sly Marbo= Stallone/Rambo
We'll be back rule for Necrons...hmmm, I wonder!
Those are just a few off the top pf my head. Not to mention the many things they model off of historic/real places and events. Which is fine until you try to copywrite it!!!

[nvillacci]

I'm not trying to stray off topic because I think that you have good cause to feel slighted and I absolutely HATE the stance that GW has adopted on IP (they are going to protect it literally to their graves if they aren't careful as their stranglehold alienates far more business than it saves.)

That said the most entertaining part to me about all of this is that all the while they are cutting staff, closing stores and scaling back new releases they still manage to have somebody trolling Ebay for guys selling home-made shoulder pads. That speaks so loudly as to the nature of that company.

"Hey get those guys who used to playtest the rules and have them scan the interwebs for people making cool stuff to go with our games that we don't even make ourselves. That way they aren't undermining our crappy, flaw-ridden rules systems with their mini add-ons."

They dont need to hire people, there is a Brother Argos who runs "Bolter and Chainsword" ( I swear you have to be a registered GW fanbois to post on that site much less run it). He didnt like us selling pads on ebay, so he siced GW on us.

If this gets a letter from GWs attorneys, Ill make sure it gets some public attention if I can.

[nvillacci]

I was lucky enough to get a morning appointment with an IP Attorney this friday.

Here is the lowdown:

Yes we can use GWs pads as a base to sculpt on, he did say it would be better to use our own pad if we can do that.

GW has no claim to "Shoulder Pad" when describing an item on thier model.

It would be best if we didnt use GW models to showcase our items, though a gallery with customers minis with our items wouldnt be bad (just not directly connected to our commercial sales area).

Ebay is gutless when it comes to big companies complaining about small businesses.

We can use Space Marine in our product description, as Fair Use law enables one to use a Trademarked name to describe an item if thats pretty much the way it needs to be described.

We can even use Warhammer 40k in our product description, "These pads can be used on Warhammer 40k Space Marines".

If we do kits for vehicles its best to make our own door and hatch templates for vehicles and use those instead of GWs as our model bases (though he said we are ok with using GWs as we modifiy it enough to make it a distinct creation away from GWs).

He pretty much laughed when I said GW said we were infringing on their IP with our shoulder pads. Since our salamander Icon is completely distinct to thiers they had nothing to stand on, that and the Shoulder Pad shape is so basic they cant lay claim to it. Thier is nothing stopping anyone from making custom kits for GW models, thier IP policy is pretty much useless in that regard.

I was pretty happy once I left the law office, I had a feeling GW was using bullying tactics, but this confirmed it. I do wonder if any other companies (Mongoose Games) consulted IP attorneys as they would have told them the same thing.

Look for us on ebay again in the future (my sculptor has produced some rather nice proxies for "Brothers of the Snake" Iron Snakes and Deathwatch shoulder pads and Rhino kits?). When we get our website up I will inquire on sponsorship from Lin as well.

Thanks everyone for the kind support.

Nick

[MEDEVL]

Sounds like great news!!! Make sure to get all of htat in writting! Good luck with the website and keep up the fight.

[NuWishA]

Heh, good luck acutally winning, even if a lawyer says it can work that way, GW has enough money to say it doesn't.

[nvillacci]

NuWishA

GW would have to take us in front of a ?US federal court and risk losing (very good chance) in a very public trial. This would open more doors for other retailers out there, so I welcome the challenge (I have cash to spare).

[Massawyrm]

NuWishA

GW would have to take us in front of a ?US federal court and risk losing (very good chance) in a very public trial. This would open more doors for other retailers out there, so I welcome the challenge (I have cash to spare).

Actually, as previously mentioned, being a British company they would be most apt to protect their IP through British law. They wouldn't have to take you in front of US courts - they would take you to UK ones. But I'm sure you've already researched the UK law on this and realize that our treaties with the UK hold you accountable to their law in this matter.

But really, law be damned, seriously. Best of luck butting heads with Ebay. As mentioned in your post they're gutless, and rightly so. If they stood up for every guy who thought he had a case against a grievance, their rates would be much higher than they are now - just to pay for their lawyers. They're gutless because they don't want any of this. I mean really, who wants to get in the middle of an overly protective company and some independent garage operation making their own versions of the first guys stuff? Legal or no, they're just gonna keep deleting your auctions until GW gets annoyed enough to serve you an injunction - at which point the lawyer is gonna cost you far more than you'd ever make on your (admittedly awesome) custom jobs.

All I'm saying is tread with caution, my friend. Your tone suggests you are gearing up for a fight and really, it's a fight that looks much more costly and time consuming than the end result could net you. The best fights are sometimes the ones you find your way around entirely.

[NuWishA]

Jah, so it ends up as Ebay will keep taking off your ad if GW complains.

You really prepared to go to court with Ebay and GW in both US and UK courts?

[JohnHwangBT]

If he's US-based, and GW also has US-based operations, I believe that GW would be obliged to bring suit in the US. Now, GW might choose venue in Maryland (HQ), or perhaps Delaware (if incorporated there on paper), as opposed to Texas, but if GW has operations in Texas, he might be able to challenge venue successfully.

If he's really geared up, he could preemptively file suit in Texas to enjoin (prevent) GW from further business interference, forcing any legal action on his home turf...

[nvillacci]

If he's US-based, and GW also has US-based operations, I believe that GW would be obliged to bring suit in the US. Now, GW might choose venue in Maryland (HQ), or perhaps Delaware (if incorporated there on paper), as opposed to Texas, but if GW has operations in Texas, he might be able to challenge venue successfully.

If he's really geared up, he could preemptively file suit in Texas to enjoin (prevent) GW from further business interference, forcing any legal action on his home turf...

Exactomondo on the jurisdiction. I dont want a fight but I will not be pushed out of a legitimate business idea by an overzealous company that fears competition.

[MagickalMemories]

If he's US-based, and GW also has US-based operations, I believe that GW would be obliged to bring suit in the US. Now, GW might choose venue in Maryland (HQ), or perhaps Delaware (if incorporated there on paper), as opposed to Texas, but if GW has operations in Texas, he might be able to challenge venue successfully.

If he's really geared up, he could preemptively file suit in Texas to enjoin (prevent) GW from further business interference, forcing any legal action on his home turf...

Exactomondo on the jurisdiction. I dont want a fight but I will not be pushed out of a legitimate business idea by an overzealous company that fears competition.

For the record, I am NOT a fan of Corporate GW.

That being said, I don't think it's the competition they fear. I think they take such a heavy handed approach because they want to protect their IP vigorously. In certain countries, if you allow anything to be created with your IP, you forfeit that IP (VERY basic breakdown there). I think they're being overzealous in their protection because of a "Better safe than sorry" approach. While I sympathize with your problem (and hope you win), I can't blame them in vigorously protecting what they see as, either, a breach of their IP or a stepping stone to an IP breach.

Eric