C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT - resolved

They're not Bad Traders per se but they are REALLY annoying. Tell us about them here. READ THE RULES.

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PauloF ( 96 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT - resolved

Post by PauloF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:15 pm

As much as I hate being here i will not pass on a dishonest trader like this:

Long story short:

Mr Samir placed an ad selling stuff and mentioned FREE SHIPPING. He NEVER mentioned US only, or that you can't be in Brazil or anything like it.

We agreed by PM I would get an LRC and Space Wolves Pack. I paid him via Paypal and THEN I got an email saying he didnt see i was from Brazil that i had to pay USD 5 more to cover it. What really pissed me off was his response by email, otherwise I would have paid the USD 5 in a flash light!

I CLEARLY state my location at my profile and I have it also at my signature and the guy never mentioned any of those details at his add. if it wasn't by Btown rules being so specific i would consider this to be a BAD TRADER not a BACKOUT!

I like the fact guys like this a running away from the hobby:

enough said - see with your own eyes:
C5low13 wrote:FOR PICS...PLEASE GO HERE:http://gallery.me.com/fatalsports/100801

Hey everyone,

I am quitting Warhammer. I already sold off my painted armies...so all I have left is my planned armies.
Everything is brand new and has not been opened...still wrapped!

My prices are firm since they include shipping - PRICES INCLUDE SHIPPING!
FOR PICS...PLEASE GO HERE:http://gallery.me.com/fatalsports/100801

Eldar
1 x Eldar Codex - $17.50
2 x Dire Avengers - $21 each
2 x Vyper Jetbikes - $21 each
4 x Fire Dragons - $21 each
1 x Autarch on Jetbike - $21
1 x Farseer and Warlock Bodyguard - $21
6 x Wave Serpents - $29 each
2 x Autarch with Fusion Gun - $10.50 each
1 x Autarch with Power Sword - $10.50
1 x Eldrad Ulthran, Farseer of Ulthwe - $14

Space Wolves
3 x Space Wolves Pack - $25 each
1 x Wolf Priest Ulrik - $10.50

Imperial Guard
2 x Valkyries - $40.50 each

Marines
1 x Vanguard Veteran Squad - $29
2 x Sternguard Veteran Squad - $24.50 each
1 x Scouts - $14
1 x Thunderfire Cannon - $34.50
2 x Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer - $40.50 each

General Items
1 x How To Paint Citadel Miniatures - $15 (Used but looks brand new)
1 x Planetstrike - $15 (Used but looks brand new)
1 x Warhammer 40K Small Rulebook - $10 (Used but looks new)
2 x GW Dice - Green + White - $3 each (new)
1 x GW Scorched Grass Huge Bag - $10 (new)
1 x GW Dead Grass - $4 (new)
1 x GW Grass - $4 (new)
1 x Citadel Spray Gun - $15 (used)
1 x Citadel PVA Glue - $4 (new)
30 x Assorted Paints - $20 for all (A lot of paint left in each pot!)

Gameboard
1 x Citadel Realm of Battle Gamebaord with 9 Terrain Pieces...Everything is painted excellently! Consists of 6 2x2 pieces to make 6x4 Gameboard. You get everything you see in the pics except for the table it is laying on. The board can easily be put away in the bag for storage when needed. Board has been painted and sealed along with the Terrain pieces - $275

FOR PICS...PLEASE GO HERE:http://gallery.me.com/fatalsports/100801


Thanks...Email me with any questions... Fatalsports@me.com

Sam

Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:33 pm
by PauloF
Hey Man

what do you think of 110 for


Imperial Guard
2 x Valkyries - $40.50 each

Marines
1 x Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer - $40.50 each

let me know

thanks

Paulo
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:34 pm
by C5low13
Sorry no...The 2 Valks look like they are sold...pending payment.

Even if they dont sell...the best I could do all 3 for is $120 shipped. That's over 30% off retail and free shipping
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:43 pm
by PauloF
no problem,

let me know if it falls through. i can do the 120

thanks

Paulo
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:56 pm
by PauloF
hey Man

forgot to say EVEN if I dont get the Valks i still wants the LRC and then i will add one 1 x Space Wolves Pack - $25 each to my pot, ok?

thanks
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:59 pm
by C5low13
Ok, the Valks sold.

So you want 1 or 2 LR C/R, Paint, and 1 Space Wolves pack...
let me know
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:07 pm
by PauloF
have to be honest with the pockets. it will be just one LRC and that's it man

thanks

Paulo
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:10 pm
by C5low13
Ok so 1 LRC, Paint, and 1 SW Pack....Total is $85 shipped.

You can paypal me at fatalsports@mac.com

In the payment...write what your buying

Thanks
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:13 pm
by PauloF
LRC $40 SWPack $ 25 - more like $ 65 right??
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:19 pm
by C5low13
I thought you wanted the paint...If not then $65 is right
Re: Quitting Sale...Eldar, IG, SW, + Marines - All New + Wrapped
Sent: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:37 pm
by PauloF
Ok Samir

Paypal sent:

Paulo, you have sent a payment of $65.00 USD to samir.
We have sent you a receipt for this payment, and an email has been sent to your recipient. View details


here is the address.

R. AUGUSTO TOLLE Nº 787 - OFFICE 15
SÃO PAULO - BRAZIL
ZIP 02405-001


please send me the tracking number as soon as you have it!

thanks

Paulo

And then comes the emails

________________________________________
From: Fatal Sports <fatalsports@mac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:37:50 -0500
To: <paulo@hive.com.br>
Subject: Re: You've received a payment

What is this payment for?
On Nov 13, 2009, at 10:37 AM, paulo@hive.com.br wrote:

Sorry man forgot to send the details.

1 LRCrusader and 1 wolves pack. The right address were sent by pm.

Thanks

Paulo
Enviado através do meu BlackBerry® da Nextel
From: Fatal Sports [mailto:fatalsports@mac.com]
Sent: sexta-feira, 13 de novembro de 2009 13:42
To: paulo@hive.com.br
Subject: Re: Res: Re: You've received a payment

You never told me you lived in Brazil...I cant do that price to Brazil. Shipping will be more expensive. If you still want it...you need to add $5 to cover the extra shipping...otherwise I can refund the money
On Nov 13, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Paulo Fernandes wrote:

Dude,

LOOK at my profile, right below my name – it STATES CLEARLY that I lived abroad, my signature as well. ALSO you never mentioned at your post you would not do the free shipping for outside USA. You should’ve paid more attention to details like that not me – I’m the costumer here!

I will not add the USD 5 for the shipping – if you want to refund me fine but I will fill a backout report! It’s not for the amount but an agreement is an agreement!

LMK

Paulo

From: Fatal Sports [mailto:fatalsports@mac.com]
Sent: sexta-feira, 13 de novembro de 2009 13:48
To: paulo@hive.com.br
Subject: Re: Res: Re: You've received a payment

File a report...its not my responsibility to look at your profile to see where you live.
________________________________________
From: Fatal Sports <fatalsports@mac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:37:50 -0500
To: <paulo@hive.com.br>
Subject: Re: You've received a payment

And you have an unconfirmed address listed in paypal...I dont ship to unconfirmed addresses.
So in my humble opinion the guy missed to say BOTH the thing about not doing the free shipping for International AND the confirmed address thing!!

disappointed and pissed off

Paulo Fernandes
I live in São Paulo - Brazil. Happy to cover differences on shipping cost if the deal is good :)

When trading I follow traditional (but not enforced or endorsed) Btown rules: lower rating ships first, Paypal and USPS shipment (Priority)

References I'm owned: stnyhan

PauloF ( 96 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by PauloF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:16 pm

He can't stop being a jerk and an idiot

From: Fatal Sports [mailto:fatalsports@mac.com]
Sent: sexta-feira, 13 de novembro de 2009 13:55
To: Paulo Fernandes
Subject: Re: Res: Re: You've received a payment

your money has been refunded....go try and find a brand new/wrapped LR and Space Wolves Pack for $65 elsewhere

I wish there were something the Admins and Mods could do about it!
I live in São Paulo - Brazil. Happy to cover differences on shipping cost if the deal is good :)

When trading I follow traditional (but not enforced or endorsed) Btown rules: lower rating ships first, Paypal and USPS shipment (Priority)

References I'm owned: stnyhan

C5low13 ( 85 )
Trade Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by C5low13 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:25 pm

I don't even feel the need to respond to this...look at my perfect trader feedback.

He took offense to the fact that I can't give free shipping to the whole wide world. Sorry, I can't do that. I only asked for an extra $5 to cover shipping costs or I could refund his money:
You never told me you lived in Brazil...I cant do that price to Brazil. Shipping will be more expensive. If you still want it...you need to add $5 to cover the extra shipping...otherwise I can refund the money

His response:
Dude,
LOOK at my profile, right below my name – it STATES CLEARLY that I lived abroad, my signature as well. ALSO you never mentioned at your post you would not do the free shipping for outside USA. You should’ve paid more attention to details like that not me – I’m the costumer here!
I will not add the USD 5 for the shipping – if you want to refund me fine but I will fill a backout report! It’s not for the amount but an agreement is an agreement!
LMK
Paulo


Plus he had an unconfirmed address...which I will not ship to!

I refunded his money within minutes and told him to try and find a deal like that again...And here was his response:
I prefer to use my time showing bartertown how to identify a cheap *edit* douchebag such as you.

Go visit your newly placed backout report – you’re famous now J


What a lovely Bartertown member we have here

PauloF ( 96 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by PauloF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:34 pm

SHOW ME WHERE YOU SAY:

BRAZILIANS, OR ANY BODY ELSE THAT DOESNT LIVE IN US HAVE TO PAY USD 5 MORE TO BUY WITH ME,

OR SHOW TO ME WHERE YOU STATE

I DONT SHIP TO UNCONFIRMED ADDRESSES

PLEASE?? as much as I try i failed to find it!

that's why i'm pissed off!!
I live in São Paulo - Brazil. Happy to cover differences on shipping cost if the deal is good :)

When trading I follow traditional (but not enforced or endorsed) Btown rules: lower rating ships first, Paypal and USPS shipment (Priority)

References I'm owned: stnyhan

C5low13 ( 85 )
Trade Novice
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by C5low13 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:35 pm

lol,

Sorry I forgot to list every single country on how much extra shipping would be outside of the US.

Would you like me to start it now:

Afghanistan: Sorry cant ship there
Albania: $10 extra
Algeria: $10 extra
Angora: $10 extra
....
Brazil: Go *edit* yourself

PauloF ( 96 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by PauloF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:37 pm

any mods or admins around please?
I live in São Paulo - Brazil. Happy to cover differences on shipping cost if the deal is good :)

When trading I follow traditional (but not enforced or endorsed) Btown rules: lower rating ships first, Paypal and USPS shipment (Priority)

References I'm owned: stnyhan

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porkuslime ( 3088 )
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by porkuslime » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Well guys.. time to remember rule #1.. Be Polite. Cut it with the personal attacks!

Paulo.. your initial reaction to Sam's "Oops.. I cannot mail out of the country for free, please add $5" PM was over the top, and I think started this whole problem. You could have taken a much more relaxed tone and not gone off the handle like it reads.

Sam.. your add DOES say that you will pay for shipping.. it does NOT say US only, nor does it have the "Must have Confirmed Paypal account" clause..

Neither one of you mentioned in the initial exchange Paulo's location nor Sam's need for a confirmed paypal address.

This would be grounds for either of you to dissolve the trade amicably... but words got said and attitude got thrown around, and now we are here.

Right now, neither of you are out Money or Models.. just some Time. This stops here.. both just walk away. You both started swearing at each other and that will be grounds for a mini-vacation if you push it.
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

I use the Unofficial Porkuslime Trading Guidelines - if you have way less refs.. you ship first.

Folks I am awaiting a ref from.. Zack

USPS Mail Fraud
FBI Internet Crime Complaint Center

http://www.40korigins.com - Bringing 40k events to the Origins Game Fair!

PauloF ( 96 )
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Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by PauloF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:03 pm

that's the beauty of looking at the situation from outside - no boiling blood or anything like it.

comments and critics accurate and taken Porkus!!

thanks

Paulo
I live in São Paulo - Brazil. Happy to cover differences on shipping cost if the deal is good :)

When trading I follow traditional (but not enforced or endorsed) Btown rules: lower rating ships first, Paypal and USPS shipment (Priority)

References I'm owned: stnyhan

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:19 pm

I agree with everything Pork said.

Additionally, the back out report is valid. An agreement was made. PauloF has had his location in his profile for some time, now. The ad does NOT specify WHICH shipping is free, only that SHIPPING is free. If the seller is offering free shipping, it's his place to mention any limitations up front or, at least, before the deal is finalized (and, especially, paid for).

PauloF kept his side of the bargain, even if he did over-react to the back-out.
C5low13 did not.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

C5low13 ( 85 )
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by C5low13 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:30 pm

If that's the case that I'm at fault...then I'll do the deal and hold up my side of the bargain. If you want, paypal me back the $65 and we can do the deal...ball's in your court now

Ironhide ( 92 )
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by Ironhide » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:39 pm

Ya know what? I'm getting tired of traders posting free shipping in their ads, only to come back later and change the stipulations. If you put "Free Shipping" in your ad, then you need to make sure you know what that entails. Bartertown is NOT a US only site. We have members worldwide.

If people can't take the 2 seconds it takes to look at someone's location (when they actually have it listed), then you deserve the grief you get. Especially, when the person has it in two different locations.

Also note, that if you only limit yourself to "Confirmed Addresses", your also limiting your possible trades.

EDIT: Good call, C5low13.
"You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need." - The Rolling Stones
FBI Internet Fraud Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/
USPS Mail Fraud http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms ... laint.aspx

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
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Posts: 16339
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:41 pm

C5low13 wrote:If that's the case that I'm at fault...then I'll do the deal and hold up my side of the bargain. If you want, paypal me back the $65 and we can do the deal...ball's in your court now
For the record...
A backout report is not the end of the world.

Paulo has not hammered your references with a negative (which, IMO, would be a bit extreme for this one). It's good enough if you want to just go your separate ways.

If you DO decide to go through with the deal still, it DOES speak well for your character, though.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Imaginos ( 406 )
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by Imaginos » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:53 pm

I just want to say that I'm impressed that you originally only added a $5 up charge to ship from the US to Brazil. If shipping to Brazil is anything like Canada (and I can only assume it is worse), then that is a deal.

PauloF ( 96 )
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Posts: 156
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Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by PauloF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:05 pm

I recognize I have this strong temper and sometimes it creates me problem which I'm always prompt to deal with. But I'm not a proud person and I recognize people out there have the same or worst problems I have and those can get any man out of it's normal "modus operandi".

Thanks Iron, MM an Porkus - not at all because of your stance at this situation but for being loyal to the rules and fair people, you are some of the reasons why I'm sticking around and getting more and more involved with the hobby!

cheers

in time: let's give it another try - paypaling Samir again in 30 min!!

Paulo Fernandes
I live in São Paulo - Brazil. Happy to cover differences on shipping cost if the deal is good :)

When trading I follow traditional (but not enforced or endorsed) Btown rules: lower rating ships first, Paypal and USPS shipment (Priority)

References I'm owned: stnyhan

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16339
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: C5low13 - SAMIR - BACKOUT, NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:09 pm

As the OP and "accused" seem to be working this out, I'm locking the topic and editing the Subject line.

Paulo, C5low... If either of you need this reopened, please alert any staff member, and he will reopen it for you.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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