Sun Tzu26 - [Admin edit] or cant follow rules

They're not Bad Traders per se but they are REALLY annoying. Tell us about them here. READ THE RULES.

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Astynax ( 46 )
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Sun Tzu26 - [Admin edit] or cant follow rules

Post by Astynax » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:19 am

I'm not totally sure of his intentions - whether he was trying to twist it to get me to ship first or if he was really just misinformed but there were a few strong indicators which made me skeptical
1 - complaining about the shipping cost when I would have to ship to him as well and that he was going out on a limb paying for shipping
2 - being very interested in everything I had to offer (maybe it's just me? but that seems like a "ship me everything that you can" mentality)
3 - referral from someone who PURCHASED from him while the purchaser has no referral of his own. Why would the person send money then give a referral before receiving the items? The purchaser has no rating or posts - made up account?
4 - adamant that I ship first

Either way - it resulted in a backout and caution should be used against this guy


Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:06 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Subject: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM

Astynax wrote:
Haves:
6 Metal Chaos terminators - 1 reaper autocannon, 3 combi weapons, 2 twin linked bolters, 1 chainfist, 1 power fist
6 Plague Marine Bodies - have plaguebearer arms and heads but can be removed to add CSM parts for plague marines
60 Zombies

Wants:
Anything SM - starting up and just have 1 tac squad.
Eldar - Looking more for models just to paint up, warlocks & autarchs preferred. Not looking for large army trades.

Hey

I have these models to trade. I'm interested in your Terms and Plague Marines.

Please PM with offers!
20 Guardians+one heavy weapon(Troop)(Partly painted)
7 Fire Dragons including 2 Exarch(Elite)(ok paint)
5 Warp Spiders including Exarch(Fast Attack)(painted poorly)
9 Swooping Hawks including Exarch(Fast Attack)(nicely painted)
16 Dark Reapers(Heavy)(4 without weapons)(partly painted)
4 Weapons Battery+crew+3 extra weapons(Heavy)(5 Shadow Weavers, 2 Virbo & 1 D cannons)

Sun Tzu26


Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:34 pm
by Astynax

Is there anything you need from what I have?

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:53 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey

I'm interested in your Terms and Plague Marines.

Sun Tzu26

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:37 pm
by Astynax

Ah ya, I just looked at the last message & looks like you wrote that in my quote so I missed it.

Would you want to trade for your warp spiders?

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:43 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey

I didn't put it in the quote. Yes I would trade the Warp Spiders for Terms.

Thanks,

Sun Tzu26

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:36 pm
by Astynax

Sounds good. Would you like the plague marine bodies as well?

I obtained a deathguard army and combined it with my CSM and the models are actually plague marine bodies with plaguebearer heads and arms and the guy used them as possessed. However, I have too many elite choices and cant use them so you can have them if you would like as well. I have a bunch of arms & heads from some CSM you could put on them if you want too

What would your shipping address be?

Also as you have a lower rating, it's customary that you would ship first. I will provide tracking and a scan of the shipping document for assurance when I ship.

My address is
<REMOVED FOR PRIVACY>

Let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:22 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey

Yes, I would like the Plague Marines. How I have done it in the past is I send them, once I send you the tracking number. Then you send yours with a tracking number.

My address is: <REMOVED FOR PRIVACY>
Thanks,

Paul

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:47 am
by Astynax

That works too.

I do have another question though - I haven't tried the support weapons platforms with my army before and am considering it maybe for fun games - is there anything else you are looking for that we could trade for them? Would you be able to get some pics of the platforms as well? Otherwise the other deal is still a go. I'll pack them up tomorrow after work.

Thanks!

Hey

I can post pics of the platform Friday night and mail by Monday. I want jetbikes, Harlaquins or a Wave Serpent. Or I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,

Sun Tzu26

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:20 am
by Astynax

Hey Paul,

I dont have any of the listed stuff unfortunately. The only other items would be a CSM khorne lord with a daemon weapon and about 1700 points worth of WoC from WHFB.

Let me know if you could use any of it, otherwise dont worry about the pics!

Thanks

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:04 am
by Sun Tzu26

Hey

What are WoC from WHFB? How many weapons platforms did you want?

Thanks,

Sun Tzu26

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:47 pm
by Astynax

Warriors of Chaos from warhammer fantasy battles. The # of platforms depends on if there's anything you need and what their values are

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:37 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey Jeff

I will trade all the platforms for some of your WoC. I will take the Khorne Lord. Do you have any Chaos Chariots, Beast of Nurgle or Screemers of Tzeentch? I have post the pics of the platforms and Warp Spiders.

Thanks,

Paul

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:45 pm
by Astynax

Sorry, no chariots or the listed demons. WoC doesnt include demons anymore since theyve been split out as their own army. Want to trade anything for just the lord?

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:26 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey Jeff

I can trade for just the Lord or for more. Tell me what you have. I have a friend who plays WoC and is interested in adding to his army. So if you want all the platforms we can work out a deal.

Thanks,

Paul

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:56 pm
by Astynax

I think I'll just trade the lord for now. I haven't used my WoC much yet and may possibly trade some stuff later once I figure out how the army plays. Would you trade 1 platform for it?

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:33 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey Jeff

Deal is 6 CSM Terms, 6 plauge Marines and the Lord for 5 Warp Spiders and a Heavy Weapon with 2 crew. I will send a "Shadow Weaver" and a 'Virbo Cannon". I'm good with it. I need your info agian. I was clearing PM's and deleted it. Once I receive the tracking number then within 24hrs I will send it off and PM you the tracking number.

Thanks,

Paul

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:00 am
by Astynax

Hey Paul,

Yep that sounds good. My address is

< REMOVED FOR PRIVACY>

Talk to you soon!
Thanks

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:43 pm
by Astynax

Heys,

Have you had a chance to ship them out yet? If so do you have the tracking #?

Thanks

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:04 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey

I thought you were going to ship first and send me the tracking number.Then I would ship within 24hrs. I said that in Oct 25 PM.

Thanks,

Paul

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:12 pm
by Astynax

Ah, I misread that - but why would I ship first when I have more referrals than all your sites combined?

The original discussion on Oct 22 also listed that "Also as you have a lower rating, it's customary that you would ship first. I will provide tracking and a scan of the shipping document for assurance when I ship."

I would be more skeptical to ship first since your heresy referrals cannot be traced and the one here is from someone with a (0) rating. Would you be able to ship them out first?

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:24 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey Jeff

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest. Terms were set and you agreed. If you don't want to do the deal that's fine. I was only doing this deal because I thought I could trade those models for stuff I wanted. Shipping cost alone make this a pricy deal for me.

Paul

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:42 pm
by Astynax

This isn't a pissing contest - it's based on security and terms to ensure the more reliable person is not ripped off. You cannot argue that you are doing me a favor with "Shipping cost alone make this a pricy deal for me" when I have to pay shipping as well to send them to you.

You will not convince me to ship first especially with your unusual reference of having sold to "leth" on Btown in your signature when you have the (2) rating and he has the (0). If he purchased from you he would have sent the money first which would show him having completed his part of the transaction and you giving him a referral rather than receiving one for getting paid. It does not make sense for the buyer to leave the reference first and you could have easily made a new account and given yourself the referral. Furthermore, the other sites you have claimed to have traded on do not leave referrals of any type except for rogue trader, but that person is also unreliable with a rating of (5).

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:32 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey Jeff

You have three reference and I have three if you don't include Hersey. Which doesn't do any rating and was the only site I was trading at first. Also at the time I was new to trading and didn't realize about references. Ratings of people that I have traded with is nothing I can control, only the success of the traded. Which all my trades have been. The comment about the cost was because I can't use these models. They are only going to be traded for something I want. So I might have other shipping cost including shipping to Canada.

So because of I really don't need these, cost(didn't realize you lived in Canada unit I received your address), disagreement on who ships first and I feel insulted. I not interested in the deal anymore. I've done everything I could to show I'm a good trader and you act like I trying to scam you. Well I've had people try to scam me, so I'm careful. I don't need to take the risk for stuff that isn't part of my armies. Good luck in your trading and gaming.

Thanks,

Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:05 pm
by Astynax

Heys,

Actually, the number next to my username in brackets which show up in the forums are my referrals and the ones in my signature are those who have failed to provide a referral after we traded, so I would have more than you. While your intentions may be good - if the models are for someone else you can get them to pay the shipping so you aren't the one losing out on the trade.

Please read the forum rules to prevent conflict in future trades. Take care

Thanks
References owed by:
Coffey - for a $225 trade
CaptainTF - $50
Bakoff888 - $25 sale
foggynight81 - $30 sale

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Ironhide » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:33 pm

First, referrals from other sites do not mean squat on Bartertown.

Second, the lower rating ships first is not a rule; just a precedent set by the majority traders on here.

Third, this is not a backout! Shipping terms are part of the trade agreement, and you and Sun Tzu26 could not come to an agreement on the shipping terms. Once that occurred, either party was okay to drop out of the deal.
"You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need." - The Rolling Stones
FBI Internet Fraud Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/
USPS Mail Fraud http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms ... laint.aspx

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

MagickalMemories ( 828 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:39 pm

I was in agreement with IH until I read everything a painful second time (it's a really good idea to separate posts by some sort of obvious barrier, such as Quote brackets, lines of dashes or different colors per user).

I discovered this:


Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:22 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey

Yes, I would like the Plague Marines. How I have done it in the past is I send them, once I send you the tracking number. Then you send yours with a tracking number.

My address is: <REMOVED FOR PRIVACY>
Thanks,

Paul
Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:47 am
by Astynax

That works too.
Sun offered to ship first if Ast sent his stuff when he received the confirmation #, and Ast agreed.
They had a deal on shipping right there.

For the record, folks... that's a bad way to do a deal. It's easy to get ripped off that way. Just because it's a D.C. #, doesn't mean it's a D.C. # for a package coming to YOU.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Astynax ( 46 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Astynax » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:49 pm

Sorry for the mess with posting of PMs, I've never done it before and wasnt sure how to keep it in the quotes and in order.

The way I understood it was that he would ship and provide a tracking #, then I would ship though his terms later changed. I only agreed to this originally as it was not a trade of particularly high value and decided the risk would be worth receiving them faster to plan my army out - though it does provide the opportunity to be scammed and yes, is not a good way to deal.
References owed by:
Coffey - for a $225 trade
CaptainTF - $50
Bakoff888 - $25 sale
foggynight81 - $30 sale

MagickalMemories ( 828 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:49 pm

Astynax wrote:Sorry for the mess with posting of PMs, I've never done it before and wasnt sure how to keep it in the quotes and in order.
Not a big deal.
At least you had them in chronological order (see my sig :wink: ).

Speaking of sig's, you can remove the line in yours re: northoceanbeach. He was banned for ITL intimidation and multi-accounting. He won't be leaving you a ref any time soon. :twisted:


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Ironhide » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:05 am

Okay. I'm confused then, because it seems they added more to the trade after that post and then Sun Tzu changed the shipping terms.

Sun Tzu wrote:
Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:33 pm
by Sun Tzu26

Hey Jeff

Deal is 6 CSM Terms, 6 plauge Marines and the Lord for 5 Warp Spiders and a Heavy Weapon with 2 crew. I will send a "Shadow Weaver" and a 'Virbo Cannon". I'm good with it. I need your info agian. I was clearing PM's and deleted it. Once I receive the tracking number then within 24hrs I will send it off and PM you the tracking number.

Thanks,

Paul
Then Astynax replied:
Re: H: CSM, VC W: Eldar, SM
Sent: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:00 am
by Astynax

Hey Paul,

Yep that sounds good. My address is

< REMOVED FOR PRIVACY>

Talk to you soon!
Thanks
And then that's when they got into a disagreement on who should ship first.
"You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need." - The Rolling Stones
FBI Internet Fraud Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/
USPS Mail Fraud http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms ... laint.aspx

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

MagickalMemories ( 828 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:40 am

Well, you make a valid point.
My opinion on it is that ST26 agreed to the shipping order, then tried to "sneak one in" on the OP and succeeded.

I don't know... I'll have to think about it... It certainly looks as if the OP's failure to catch that bit of info very well could cost him the right to post the backout.

He'd probably still be justified in leaving a negative but, with all the facts involved, ST26 would be JUST as justified.

Hmm...

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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starslayer ( 560 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by starslayer » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:46 pm

Maybe SunTzu could comment?? He should tell his side.

MagickalMemories ( 828 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:58 pm

starslayer wrote:Maybe SunTzu could comment?? He should tell his side.
I've PMed him.
We'll see how that goes.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Sun Tzu26 ( 78 )
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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Sun Tzu26 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:22 am

Hey All

First off, the deal change several time. At first I agreed to ship. Then we were working on including more models over more then a week. We finally came to the new deal and I said once he sends me the tracking number I would send mine with a tracking number. I had forgot that we had even agreed on shipping, plus it was a new deal with more models! I NEVER try to slip one by!! I resent that it was even said!

Second, in a negotiation everything is decided.

Third, he said he wouldn't ship first because of rating, then he question my reference and said that I was trying to scam him.

"You will not convince me to ship first especially with your unusual reference of having sold to "leth" on Btown in your signature when you have the (2) rating and he has the (0). If he purchased from you he would have sent the money first which would show him having completed his part of the transaction and you giving him a referral rather than receiving one for getting paid. It does not make sense for the buyer to leave the reference first and you could have easily made a new account and given yourself the referral. Furthermore, the other sites you have claimed to have traded on do not leave referrals of any type except for rogue trader, but that person is also unreliable with a rating of (5)."

At this point the deal was dead. I gave him three reason why I no longer wanted to do the trade. I will NEVER trade someone who so arrogant and talks to me like that. I trade on 4 sites under the same name and don't have any negative feedback or any comments in the bad trade threads!! There is ABSOLUTELY no evidence other then his wounded pride. The fact that we are even talking about this shows what a pissant he is. If he leaves a negative feedback, then I will. As fas as I'm concerned it's just a failed deal.


Thank,


Sun Tzu26

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Stanislav » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:40 am

If you leave a retaliatory negative as you just implied, well, his negative probably won't stay and your short time here will probably take a vacation.

It's kind of in the rules, not the precedents.

Not condemning either party, just throwing out a warning before more than one trader's pride is wounded.
Lower rating? I ask that you ship first. Also, if I offer a stupidly good deal and you try to negotiate even lower...don't call it bad communication that you didn't get a reply. I deleted the message.

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Ironhide » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:52 am

I'll reiterate the rule Stanislav is talking about. Following excerpt from the B-Town Rules:
Rule #11: ITL or Reference intimidation
ITL (AKA Reference) intimidation is a first-offense ban.

What qualifies as ITL intimidation?
In its most direct form, ITL intimidation is when someone says something like "If you give me a bad trader report, I'm gonna give you one."
Anything that is not so direct, like "If you don't give me a good trade report, you'll regret it" also may qualify. Note that giving someone retaliatory feedback qualifies as well. No free hits.
If you are not sure, please contact either myself or one of the moderators. The equivalent level of evidence required for filing a bad trade report is necessary: emails with headers, PMs, and so forth.
And I'll say this again, no one cares what you feedback rating is on other sites. Following excerpt from the B-Town Rules:
Rule #8b: Don't Play Both Sides Against Each Other
Do not post an item on eBay and post a trade ad for it on Bartertown. That is unfair to eBay buyers and especially Bartertowners. If we find out you're doing this, you can expect a month's vacation.

Helpful Hint: The community does not care about your standing on eBay or anywhere else. Bartertown references are the proverbial currency of the realm if you want to show how trustworthy you are.
"You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need." - The Rolling Stones
FBI Internet Fraud Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/
USPS Mail Fraud http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms ... laint.aspx

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:45 am

Be careful before jumping the gun, guys.
While the wording on this is a bit "revenge" sounding the fact remains that, depending on how you feel about how the deal went down, it very well might be that Sun has as much a right to leave a negative as the OP does. In which case he's leaving a deserved negative, and not a revenge.

Now, that's just a "Devil's Advocate" point of view, and I'm NOT saying it's how I feel.

As is, I strongly suggest that both parties wash their hands of the other and move on. Let the Admin staff decide what to do with the thread.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Sun Tzu26 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:32 am

Amen! Since there is no fault, I would request that the thread be removed.

Thanks,

Sun Tzu26

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Re: Sun Tzu26 - possible scam attempt or cant follow rules

Post by Imaginos » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:21 pm

I'm curious as to why SZ26 got a positive reference from leth, but didn't leave leth a reference in return. That smacks a bit more to me of possible reference fraud than anything.

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