Backout - Maelx

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Imaginos ( 406 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by Imaginos » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:13 pm

md02geist wrote:The sale was veto'd even prior to the mention of shipping to Canada -- please read the PMs along with timestamps to confirm this. Whether I mentioned shipping to Canada or not was not even a factor in the veto of the sale, as I clearly stated "I cannot allow you to purchase these items" prior to mentioning anything about Canada. The Canada thing was only mentioned as it was one more cost I could not afford in the event of an unconfirmed address.

It's a moot point about the Canada thing.

And as I stated, if you cannot get a confirmed address, you clearly cannot purchase my items. If you cannot get a confirmed address because you are in Canada, because you are in Germany, or because you live on Venus, it doesn't matter -- you simply cannot get a confirmed address and thus cannot purchase my items.
I totally get the whole confirmed address bit. My point is that you even mentioning it casts it in a grey light. Also, be careful shipping to an 'alternate' confirmed address. You might want to double-check, but I believe the paypal seller protection only extends to the address that the payment is tied to when it is sent.

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govannon ( 116 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by govannon » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:20 pm

md02geist wrote: Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:06 pm
by Maelx

md02geist wrote:
I just checked and you have an unconfirmed paypal address, and the item is not eligible for shipping protection. Unfortunately until you remedy this problem, I cannot allow you to purchase these -- particularly since you are in another country. Very sorry.

Unconfirmed? I must have unconfirmed during my move, unfortunately. Why do I need to confirm my address before you ship the models? I have another, confirmed address you could also ship to, but it's my permanent address in another city.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:44 pm
by md02geist

Yes, your address is unconfirmed by paypal. You need to confirm your address because if you don't, I am not protected by paypal's seller protection policy. Shipping to an unconfirmed address is the easiest, most common way to get ripped off on paypal when you are the seller.

You also didn't mention that you were outside of the US -- I can only bite the shipping on lictors if you were domestic, they are so heavy that it will be 5 or 6 bucks just in the US alone. I don't even know what they would be to Ontario, but certainly more.
md02geist
You told him that you could not sell to him until he fixes his address problem. He told you that he had another address that is confirmed that you could mail to. Then in your next PM you told him you would not cover shipping. So, that made him think the deal was canceled.
You both messed up on this deal. You might not have meant that part about shipping out of the US to seem like you were changing the deal. But if I got that PM from you, I would take it as you were not going to ship to the other confirmed address because you realised you messed up not making sure of the country.

I would take this as a learning experience and move on. Because if it was up to me to take a neg. ref. off of anybody it would be Maelx. He told you he had another address that was confirmed that you could ship to and then you changed the deal by telling him you would not cover the shipping to him.

George
If you think my attitude stinks, you should smell my underwear!

Buy, sell or trade....it's all the same to me. Lower refs pays/ships first!

Tyrants can not be stopped by earnest words and furrowed brows. Action, strong bold action coming from a position of strength and determination, is the only effective deterrent.

md02geist ( 20 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by md02geist » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:48 pm

Shin_Hang-Pyo51 wrote:He did argue with you about the confirmed address, but then he said he had another address that was confirmed. You could have then asked him what it was and if you could ship it there.

If he wanted it shipped to that address, he could have told me so and given me the information. I refunded the payment in order for him to do so. Instead, he left me a negative rep and made his post about me.

Other than my one sentence saying that I'm not sure I could bite shipping to Canada since it will doubtlessly be more expensive (I have shipped to Canada before, it is far more expensive than domestic shipping) I could not have been much more forward or giving in this situation. He was getting an incredible deal on the models and only needed to provide me with a confirmed address in order for the transaction to follow through.
Please, no social ineptitude. Gamer does not need to equal social inability to function.
Positive ref left for positive ref.

md02geist ( 20 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by md02geist » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:52 pm

At NO POINT did I say "Sorry, I'm not shipping to Canada due to the costs." I simply said I couldn't afford to cover shipping in that case, because if any of you have shipped to Canada you will likely know that it would've cost the majority of the price of my lictors to get them there, if not all of it.

I told him I could not ship to him because he did not have a confirmed address. That ended the deal right there. I told him if he remedied that, I would continue through with the deal. His payment was refunded almost immediately so he could do so. Rather than do so, he left a negative rep and proceeded to make a backout post on me.

As I said, my phrasing was wrong, however my intent was just to say that "Dang it's expensive to ship to Canada, I'm not sure I can afford it." It was NOT that I could not ship to Canada because of the cost...I simply cannot afford to give him free models (on my end free, as once paypal/insurance/confirmation/shipping to Canada all took their toll, I'd be out most if not all of my money).

The purchase was denied due to unconfirmed address. My PM to him makes that clear. If he wanted it shipped to his other address, he had a chance. If his other address is in Canada, then it obviously is not confirmed as we have already gone over the fact that you can only have confirmed addresses in the United States.
Please, no social ineptitude. Gamer does not need to equal social inability to function.
Positive ref left for positive ref.

fitterpete ( 198 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by fitterpete » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:00 pm

The shipping to canada thing is a moot point.The terms of a confirmed address were not met.That's it guys, he can now call off the deal.Regardless of any other circumstances or other motives he has the right to call off the deal.He doesn't have to give him the chance to fix it either.
If I say in my add that you must answer all my PMs with 5 smiley faces on them and you don't, you broke my trade rules and I can call it off.
And a negative reference for a back out like this? C'mon you're kidding me..
Never send me anything UPS or that I have to sign for I can't afford to take off work to receive it.Always send with Delivery Conformation,I will do the same.
If you are not in the United States tell me NOW,please.
Make a offer? It's your stuff you should know what you want for it.Seriously you want me to price your stuff for you?

edited my sig per Btown rules.Is this better Miss?

See D!ck
See D!ck run
See D!ck trade on Bartertown
See D!ck not leave a reference
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govannon ( 116 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by govannon » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:08 pm

Paypal is only able to confirm addresses in the US, Canada, and the UK. He said he had another address that was confirmed. Then you changed the deal with the shipping.
md02geist wrote:At NO POINT did I say "Sorry, I'm not shipping to Canada due to the costs." I simply said I couldn't afford to cover shipping in that case, because if any of you have shipped to Canada you will likely know that it would've cost the majority of the price of my lictors to get them there, if not all of it.
You said you would pay the shipping in your ad. Now with your last statement you just proved my point that you changed the terms of the deal by telling him you would not cover the shipping. You just proved that he was justified in leaving you a neg.

George
If you think my attitude stinks, you should smell my underwear!

Buy, sell or trade....it's all the same to me. Lower refs pays/ships first!

Tyrants can not be stopped by earnest words and furrowed brows. Action, strong bold action coming from a position of strength and determination, is the only effective deterrent.

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JohnHwangBT ( 180 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by JohnHwangBT » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:11 pm

IMO, I'd back md02geist and leave the Neg on Maelx.

As a Canuck, Maelx should know very well that international post costs more than domestic, and not providing his address up front isn't right. Of course it doesn't help that neither poster gives their location... Nevertheless, the assumption of free (domestic) shipping included is pretty reasonably broken when things change to international.

If the Seller required confirmed address as condition of sale, then refusal to meet that condition is legit grounds for cancellation.

Recommendation to md02geist: REFUSE TO TRADE WITH CANADIANS!!! :P
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alienated_one ( 294 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by alienated_one » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:15 pm

Alot of stuff has been said about this. I personally feel that both should have their feedback changed to neutral references, the comments kept the same, and they both move on having learned something. I don't think this warrants a BTR.

Just my 2 cents.
Alienated_One's Rules:
1. Lower Rating Ships first, unless we agree otherwise.
2. I will answer any PMs that are sent to me, I would appreciate it if you answered my PMs, even with a simple no.

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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by Ironhide » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:22 pm

JohnHwangBT wrote:Of course it doesn't help that neither poster gives their location...
Seems we need to make another announcement on the requirement to leave a legitimate location.

See:viewtopic.php?f=40&t=89436&p=174781&hil ... ns#p174781
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FBI Internet Fraud Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/
USPS Mail Fraud http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms ... laint.aspx

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

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govannon ( 116 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by govannon » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:24 pm

fitterpete wrote:The shipping to canada thing is a moot point.The terms of a confirmed address were not met.That's it guys, he can now call off the deal.Regardless of any other circumstances or other motives he has the right to call off the deal.He doesn't have to give him the chance to fix it either.
If I say in my add that you must answer all my PMs with 5 smiley faces on them and you don't, you broke my trade rules and I can call it off.
And a negative reference for a back out like this? C'mon you're kidding me..
He did not have to let him fix it, but he did agree to let him fix it. Then in the next PM he said that he would not cover the shipping as promised. If he had not agreed to allow him to fix it, then I would agree with you. He told him it needed fix to complete the deal. Then was told that he did have another confirmed address to ship to. Then he said he would not cover shipping.

George
If you think my attitude stinks, you should smell my underwear!

Buy, sell or trade....it's all the same to me. Lower refs pays/ships first!

Tyrants can not be stopped by earnest words and furrowed brows. Action, strong bold action coming from a position of strength and determination, is the only effective deterrent.

md02geist ( 20 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by md02geist » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:27 pm

fitterpete wrote:The shipping to canada thing is a moot point.The terms of a confirmed address were not met.That's it guys, he can now call off the deal.Regardless of any other circumstances or other motives he has the right to call off the deal.He doesn't have to give him the chance to fix it either.
If I say in my add that you must answer all my PMs with 5 smiley faces on them and you don't, you broke my trade rules and I can call it off.
And a negative reference for a back out like this? C'mon you're kidding me..


This is precisely what I'm trying to say.
Please, no social ineptitude. Gamer does not need to equal social inability to function.
Positive ref left for positive ref.

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govannon ( 116 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by govannon » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:30 pm

md02geist wrote:
fitterpete wrote:The shipping to canada thing is a moot point.The terms of a confirmed address were not met.That's it guys, he can now call off the deal.Regardless of any other circumstances or other motives he has the right to call off the deal.He doesn't have to give him the chance to fix it either.
If I say in my add that you must answer all my PMs with 5 smiley faces on them and you don't, you broke my trade rules and I can call it off.
And a negative reference for a back out like this? C'mon you're kidding me..


This is precisely what I'm trying to say.
Then you should have told him that payment was not with a confirmed address and the deal was canceled. Instead you gave him the opportunity to fix it and then told him you were not going to cover the shipping.
If you think my attitude stinks, you should smell my underwear!

Buy, sell or trade....it's all the same to me. Lower refs pays/ships first!

Tyrants can not be stopped by earnest words and furrowed brows. Action, strong bold action coming from a position of strength and determination, is the only effective deterrent.

fitterpete ( 198 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by fitterpete » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:31 pm

Govannon
I'm seeing where he agreed to let him fix it.But mealx never says he will, only rants on about why do you need a confirmed address anyway and that he has gotten ebay auctions sent to that address so it shouldn't matter.i would take that as a not going to fix it myself.
Never send me anything UPS or that I have to sign for I can't afford to take off work to receive it.Always send with Delivery Conformation,I will do the same.
If you are not in the United States tell me NOW,please.
Make a offer? It's your stuff you should know what you want for it.Seriously you want me to price your stuff for you?

edited my sig per Btown rules.Is this better Miss?

See D!ck
See D!ck run
See D!ck trade on Bartertown
See D!ck not leave a reference
Don't be a D!ck

md02geist ( 20 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by md02geist » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:32 pm

govannon wrote:
fitterpete wrote:The shipping to canada thing is a moot point.The terms of a confirmed address were not met.That's it guys, he can now call off the deal.Regardless of any other circumstances or other motives he has the right to call off the deal.He doesn't have to give him the chance to fix it either.
If I say in my add that you must answer all my PMs with 5 smiley faces on them and you don't, you broke my trade rules and I can call it off.
And a negative reference for a back out like this? C'mon you're kidding me..
He did not have to let him fix it, but he did agree to let him fix it. Then in the next PM he said that he would not cover the shipping as promised. If he had not agreed to allow him to fix it, then I would agree with you. He told him it needed fix to complete the deal. Then was told that he did have another confirmed address to ship to. Then he said he would not cover shipping.

George

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:02 pm
by md02geist

I just checked and you have an unconfirmed paypal address, and the item is not eligible for shipping protection. Unfortunately until you remedy this problem, I cannot allow you to purchase these -- particularly since you are in another country. Very sorry.

Re: Lictors for Paypal
Sent: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:06 pm
by Maelx

md02geist wrote:
I just checked and you have an unconfirmed paypal address, and the item is not eligible for shipping protection. Unfortunately until you remedy this problem, I cannot allow you to purchase these -- particularly since you are in another country. Very sorry.

Unconfirmed? I must have unconfirmed during my move, unfortunately. Why do I need to confirm my address before you ship the models? I have another, confirmed address you could also ship to, but it's my permanent address in another city.



By telling him that the situation must be correted, and by him responding with arguments that he shouldn't have to, hasn't he already been given his chance at this point and decided to refuse it with arguments anyways? And once again, if his other address is in Canada, it still isn't confirmed as we've cleared the fact that he can't get a confirmed address outside of the U.S.

I appreciate where you are coming from but I've already gone over this, and as I've stated multiple times, I realize that me mentioning the shipping came across as a refusal to ship due to his location, but my point was I simply cannot afford to ship him free minis, particularly to an unconfirmed address. I'm not sure how I can make this clearer, but I am trying. It wasn't my intent to deny him the items due to his location (as he claims) but it was indeed my intent to deny him the items based on his unconformed address (which I am well within my rights to do).
Please, no social ineptitude. Gamer does not need to equal social inability to function.
Positive ref left for positive ref.

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govannon ( 116 )
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Re: Backout - Maelx

Post by govannon » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:35 pm

fitterpete wrote:Govannon
I'm seeing where he agreed to let him fix it.But mealx never says he will, only rants on about why do you need a confirmed address anyway and that he has gotten ebay auctions sent to that address so it shouldn't matter.i would take that as a not going to fix it myself.
He told him in the very next PM that he had another address that was confirmed. But md02geist then replied that he could not cover shipping, changing the terms of the deal.
If you think my attitude stinks, you should smell my underwear!

Buy, sell or trade....it's all the same to me. Lower refs pays/ships first!

Tyrants can not be stopped by earnest words and furrowed brows. Action, strong bold action coming from a position of strength and determination, is the only effective deterrent.

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