Backout Report - Baritowned

[baritowned]

Hey everyone, I know that I am filing this report on myself, but I wanted to say my part before Dez does. I know that I am a new member, and this would have been my first deal on this website, but I feel that I have been bullied and slightly blackmailed.

So, my first post on here was me asking for pieces for Epic 40k. I was corresponding with him for a little bit, and then he sent me this:

How's $150 plus shipping sound?

I'd rather do some store credit (Miniature Market or Wargamers Cave or something) rather than straight Paypal. My accountant always seems to find ways to pilfer any funds that may come through before my armies get reinforcements Let me know if that's cool.

Thanks!

Dez

I'm sorry, but that initially sounded just a little sketchy to me. Then, I made it a point to tell him that I was waiting on a deal to go through on Dakka, but I was unsure if it would (it didn't).

After a little less than a week, while waiting on my buyer on Dakka, I messaged him saying that my buyer had backed out and I wouldn't be able to buy the Epic items. He then sent me this

Hello,

I just wanted to follow up again. Just to give you fair warning, if you are backing out of our deal I will have to post a report on you in the Deadbeat & Backout forum here viewforum.php?f=45. I'd hate to have to do that, it would be the first time in my many years and deals on Bartertown. I'd much rather stick to our deal, and give you more time.

That said, if you are unable to make the deal I understand. I'll go ahead and post it up, and then free up the Epic lot for trade. I'm planning on putting up a trade thread today, so I'd just like to know.

Thanks!

Dez

I then asked to just mention that a deal that I was expecting to go through didn't. I then posted my thread from Dakka on Bartertown, and he messaged me asking to trade (which I wasn't initially willing to do, but said I was open to it). He asked to trade the Epic items for my large
Tyranid models, as well as my Stormraven (which I even said that I wanted to keep with my Grey Knight lot). He then sent me this on Tuesday

Hello,

I just wanted to check in, did you want to make good with our trade? I'd love for you to follow through, either with the agreed upon cash value or my proposed trade below.

Thanks!

Dez

And this on Friday

Hello,

I'm officially giving you 3 days (until Monday) before I file a Deadbeat/Backout report. In those 3 days, you can:

Pay for the items as agreed
Work out a trade for the Tyranid Items
Agree to seeing the completion of the Deadbeat/Backout viewforum.php?f=45

Please respond immediately with how you would like to proceed.

Thanks!

Dez

I was really banking on that deal going through (it was a total of $800), and I made that perfectly clear. Since it hadn't, I couldn't afford it. Between my college tuition (which I am paying for myself), my car payment, and my house payment, I don't have money for this like I used to. I especially did not appreciate having this hung over my head.

Mods, I am sorry if I should not have done this, but I'm just getting frustrated.

-B

[3eland]

As per the forum rules, even though you are posting the Backout on yourself, you must list ALL messages back and forth with complete headers as per: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45472
Magickalmemories has made a very good thread about how to fill one out here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=103202
Good luck.

[baritowned]

Sorry, I'll go back and redo it when I get home.

[jason1977]

I have just sent Dez a text informing him of this post.

[baritowned]

Okay, so here is the conversation history:

Hiyas!

I have some Epic stuff, I'll send a list and pics tomorrow.

Thanks!

Dez

Subject: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)

Sounds good, thanks!

-B

Hiyas!

Ok here is what I have;

6 Stompas
6 Fightabommas
11 Battlewagons
26 Battlewagons
2 Battlewagons
BFG Ork Ship
5 Battlewagons
23 Zapp Buggies
8 Boar Riders
10 Nobz with Warlord (3 bases)
6 Gretchin (2 Bases)
22 Buggies
24 Nobs
10 Banner Boys
5 Warlords
2 Ork Dreads
1 Kan
3 SM Contemptors
9 SM Dreads
12 CSM Dreads
2 SAG
2 Eldar Gun Platforms
6 Guns ?
25 Rokkit Boyz
6 Dice
44 Bases
570 Boyz
2 Battlefortress

(snipped pics to minimize length)

Wow, I'd pretty much be set on Orks! How much do you want for all of it?

How's $150 plus shipping sound?

I'd rather do some store credit (Miniature Market or Wargamers Cave or something) rather than straight Paypal. My accountant always seems to find ways to pilfer any funds that may come through before my armies get reinforcements Let me know if that's cool.

Thanks!

Dez

Sounds good, although I might either have to wait for a deal to go through on DakkaDakka (the guy sucks at replying) or piece it out over a few weeks

Hiyas!

Ok, just let me know.

Thanks!

Dez

Hello,

I just wanted to check in and see where we stood with this. I have these Orks ready for War!

Thanks!

Dez

Sorry man, it's been a hectic week (loads of school work), and the guy who was buying my lot over on Dakka (I'm guessing) backed out. Haven't heard from him in a week and a half. So I probably won't be able to buy the epic stuff now, sorry...

Hiyas,

If you need a week or two that's fine, just wanted an idea.

Thanks!

Dez

Hello,

I just wanted to follow up again. Just to give you fair warning, if you are backing out of our deal I will have to post a report on you in the Deadbeat & Backout forum here viewforum.php?f=45. I'd hate to have to do that, it would be the first time in my many years and deals on Bartertown. I'd much rather stick to our deal, and give you more time.

That said, if you are unable to make the deal I understand. I'll go ahead and post it up, and then free up the Epic lot for trade. I'm planning on putting up a trade thread today, so I'd just like to know.

Thanks!

Dez

That's fine, I understand. I just ask that when you make the forum post, that you say that I was waiting for a sale to go through (it was an $800 deal), and the seller backed out with no communication.

Hiyas,

You should have mentioned your trade items, I'm after Big Bugs and a Stormraven! Would you like to trade?

Thanks!

Dez

I'm possibly interested in trading, although I'm trying to keep the stormraven with the Grey Knights.

I'll trade you:

The aforementioned Epic lot plus the Epic Armaggedon book for:

Stormraven
1 Tyranofex
1 Carnifex (Used/modeled as old one-eye)
1 Custom Harpy (Trygon body, Tyrant wings, two heavy venom cannons, Carnifex head)

I'm really keen on the Stormraven as I'm trying to make an Ironwing list. Iron Hands with as many flyers as I can pack in the list

It would be great if we could work out this trade, then I wouldn't have to post in the Backout thread. I was dreading it, honestly.

Dez

Hiyas,

It's the Epic Armageddon book, the most recent one. I was hoping to get my trade thread going sooner rather than later, so of course the sooner the better

Thanks!

Dez

Hello,

I just wanted to check in, did you want to make good with our trade? I'd love for you to follow through, either with the agreed upon cash value or my proposed trade below.

Thanks!

Dez

Hello,

I'm officially giving you 3 days (until Monday) before I file a Deadbeat/Backout report. In those 3 days, you can:

Pay for the items as agreed
Work out a trade for the Tyranid Items
Agree to seeing the completion of the Deadbeat/Backout viewforum.php?f=45

Please respond immediately with how you would like to proceed.

Thanks!

Dez

Sorry I didn't post this in the original post, I wasn't sure how I was supposed to go about it.

I have just sent Dez a text informing him of this post.

That's fine with me.

[Dez]

Well it's too bad it came to this. I've posted everything in full, including dates and times (headings). I'm a really laid back guy, and I'm always willing to work with people. I LOVE to barter, I think that's what we are here for. At anytime, and there were several opportunities, Baritowned could have just worked with me. After backing out of our original agreement, I figured he might want to save face by working out a deal with me. I know if I was in their situation, I would be.

In no way did I demand he do our original trade for store credit. I specifically asked him if he was cool with that, as I'd rather get a Stormraven and some new Sterngard than have the money go to Paypal and never see it again. My wife would have bought furniture or something If he had communicated that he felt I was being 'Fishy' even with @160 good references, I would totally have taken Paypal. I could use the Paypal with the $3000 vet bill I just got. I gave him a second chance to save face, and told him what I was interested in for his listed stuff.

Please read in particular where he specifically states that he needs a deal to go through on Dakka or to wait a couple weeks. I was totally cool with waiting, but he backed out instead. I gave him several chances to redeem himself, but this is the course he chose.

I also wished he had shown me the small courtesy of letting me know he was going to post this via PM, as he had requested of me.

Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:42 pm
by Dez

Hiyas!

I have some Epic stuff, I'll send a list and pics tomorrow.

Thanks!

Dez

Subject: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)

baritowned wrote:
Hey everyone, I came here looking to see if anyone has any epic pieces they would be willing to part with. I just recently got into it, and I've found out that since GW has stopped making it, pieces are either hard to come by, in bad condition, or ridiculously overpriced on eBay.

As of right now, I'm looking for Space Marines (titans included), Orks, Nids, and Eldar. I would prefer bare metal or plastic/unassembled, but primed is okay. If it's painted metal, send me a pic and I'll think about it.

If you have anything you're willing to part with, send me a pm!

Thanks,
B

Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:25 pm
by baritowned

Sounds good, thanks!

-B

Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:58 am
by Dez

Hiyas!

Ok here is what I have;

6 Stompas
6 Fightabommas
11 Battlewagons
26 Battlewagons
2 Battlewagons
BFG Ork Ship
5 Battlewagons
23 Zapp Buggies
8 Boar Riders
10 Nobz with Warlord (3 bases)
6 Gretchin (2 Bases)
22 Buggies
24 Nobs
10 Banner Boys
5 Warlords
2 Ork Dreads
1 Kan
3 SM Contemptors
9 SM Dreads
12 CSM Dreads
2 SAG
2 Eldar Gun Platforms
6 Guns ?
25 Rokkit Boyz
6 Dice
44 Bases
570 Boyz
2 Battlefortress

*IMAGES DELETED*

Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:16 am
by baritowned

Wow, I'd pretty much be set on Orks! How much do you want for all of it?


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:12 am
by Dez

How's $150 plus shipping sound?

I'd rather do some store credit (Miniature Market or Wargamers Cave or something) rather than straight Paypal. My accountant always seems to find ways to pilfer any funds that may come through before my armies get reinforcements Let me know if that's cool.

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:02 am
by baritowned

Sounds good, although I might either have to wait for a deal to go through on DakkaDakka (the guy sucks at replying) or piece it out over a few weeks


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:06 am
by Dez

Hiyas!

Ok, just let me know.

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:16 am
by Dez

Hello,

I just wanted to check in and see where we stood with this. I have these Orks ready for War!

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:22 pm
by baritowned

Sorry man, it's been a hectic week (loads of school work), and the guy who was buying my lot over on Dakka (I'm guessing) backed out. Haven't heard from him in a week and a half. So I probably won't be able to buy the epic stuff now, sorry...


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:04 pm
by Dez

Hiyas,

If you need a week or two that's fine, just wanted an idea.

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:51 am
by Dez

Hello,

I just wanted to follow up again. Just to give you fair warning, if you are backing out of our deal I will have to post a report on you in the Deadbeat & Backout forum here viewforum.php?f=45. I'd hate to have to do that, it would be the first time in my many years and deals on Bartertown. I'd much rather stick to our deal, and give you more time.

That said, if you are unable to make the deal I understand. I'll go ahead and post it up, and then free up the Epic lot for trade. I'm planning on putting up a trade thread today, so I'd just like to know.

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:00 am
by baritowned

That's fine, I understand. I just ask that when you make the forum post, that you say that I was waiting for a sale to go through (it was an $800 deal), and the seller backed out with no communication.


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:22 pm
by Dez

Hiyas,

You should have mentioned your trade items, I'm after Big Bugs and a Stormraven! Would you like to trade?

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:37 pm
by baritowned

I'm possibly interested in trading, although I'm trying to keep the stormraven with the Grey Knights.


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:44 pm
by Dez

I'll trade you:

The aforementioned Epic lot plus the Epic Armaggedon book for:

Stormraven
1 Tyranofex
1 Carnifex (Used/modeled as old one-eye)
1 Custom Harpy (Trygon body, Tyrant wings, two heavy venom cannons, Carnifex head)

I'm really keen on the Stormraven as I'm trying to make an Ironwing list. Iron Hands with as many flyers as I can pack in the list

It would be great if we could work out this trade, then I wouldn't have to post in the Backout thread. I was dreading it, honestly.

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:55 pm
by baritowned

Is it okay if I have a day or two to think about it? Btw which book is it?


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:59 pm
by Dez

Hiyas,

It's the Epic Armageddon book, the most recent one. I was hoping to get my trade thread going sooner rather than later, so of course the sooner the better

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:45 am
by Dez

Hello,

I just wanted to check in, did you want to make good with our trade? I'd love for you to follow through, either with the agreed upon cash value or my proposed trade below.

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:42 am
by Dez

Hello,

I'm officially giving you 3 days (until Monday) before I file a Deadbeat/Backout report. In those 3 days, you can:

Pay for the items as agreed
Work out a trade for the Tyranid Items
Agree to seeing the completion of the Deadbeat/Backout viewforum.php?f=45

Please respond immediately with how you would like to proceed.

Thanks!

Dez


Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:55 pm
From: baritowned(0)
To: Dez

Is it okay if I have a day or two to think about it? Btw which book is it?
baritowned (0)
New Trader

Re: [W] epic 40k [H] paypal (USA only)
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:45 am 
From: Dez(158) 
To: baritowned 
Hello,

I just wanted to check in, did you want to make good with our trade? I'd love for you to follow through, either with the agreed upon cash value or my proposed trade below.

Thanks!

Dez

[Dez]

My apologies to the Mods and Admins, I posted this without putting in the separating borders. Hopefully the PM Headers and spacing will suffice, and the fact that I posted them in chronological order.

[kturock]

After reading through all of the posts, from both sides; I don't see a back out.
No where does the OP say, I'll send you the money on [blank]day.
No where does he say, the minis are going out in the mail on [blank]day.
No where do either one of you give the other any payment or shipping info.

All I see is a deal that was never finalized.

No where is the exact wording of, "I'm sending you this, [or paying you this] for these models".
I see a couple places that a deal was ALMOST finalized, but never completed.

$150 +shipping, but not total for shipping.
No address to send the money or models.
No where saying how much store credit you'd take or how much more cash was needed.

Look up the backout I left for another trader. We went back and forth several times, with the deal changing. Then finally at the end they trader became a buer and said, "I'm sending the money out Paypal on Friday".
That's when a deal is closed and after theat, is when a backout occurs.

It looks to me that OP, being new, THOUGHT he backed out, and doing what he thought was the right thing, posted; after being threatened by the other trader.

The threat of a backout, when a deal wasn't finalised borders on extortion. Either you complete this deal, or I'll file on you.

The deal was never finalized.
I don't see a total. $150+shipping isn't a total. I don't see any payment or shipping addresses.

[Dez]

I can see your point on the terms kturock, and as you can see I was very nicely trying to follow up on that and was put off or ignored. I was very willing to work with Baritowned, and I did NOT want it to get to this point. However, I felt we had a confirmed deal. If someone backs out, I figure it's required to post here. Nobody wants to deal with (or be) a backout, and it should be documented. I've looked through the BTR and Backout Rules again, and I don't think it's quite as cut and dry as you put it but that's for Mod/Admins to decide.

I personally find it offensive that you claim I was threatening and a borderline extortionist. I gave this person umpteen chances to work with me, I even left the timeframe terms loose (which may serve as a disadvantage).

Thirdly, and I should have expressed it to Baritowned and done it already, I was going to follow up with a mod/admin before posting here as I normally do to be sure I wasn't overlooking anything. In Baritowned's rush to post this before I did, that kinda left me without the opportunity didn't it?

[kturock]

You might have thought you were being nice, but you were being pushy. He said in the beginning, and you even cited it; the deal was contingent on him making a deal on Dakka. "Sounds good, although I might either have to wait for a deal to go through on DakkaDakka (the guy sucks at replying) or piece it out over a few weeks" to which you replied, "Hiyas! Ok, just let me know. Thanks! Dez".

Still no deal finalized. It didn't give a final price, or when to expect money.

You threatened to leave a backout unless, "I'm officially giving you 3 days (until Monday) before I file a Deadbeat/Backout report. In those 3 days, you can:

Pay for the items as agreed
Work out a trade for the Tyranid Items
Agree to seeing the completion of the Deadbeat/Backout viewforum.php?f=45"

Your exact post.

YOU DID NOT HAVE A DEAL.
YOU did not agree to a total. $150 + shipping IS NOT A TOTAL.
Then the deal was changed, to or trade me: "Work out a trade for the Tyranid Items"

No deal was finalized. Your own words "Work out a trade" shows that a deal isn't finalized.

IF a deal isn't finalized, then there is no backout.

He thought he was doing the right thing, and being a good guy by admitting he made a mistake. He didn't. You told him; you threatened him, with a backout for a deal that wasn't finalized. Yes, that was extortion.
You gave him 3 choices, pay you an undisclosed amount of money, work out a trade, or accept a backout. That's a threat.
You never gave him a $ total.
You told him what you wanted for nids, he never agreed to that. He agreed to $150+shipping, but you never gave him a shipping total.

You told him to pay you, accept the trade that you offered or have a BO filed against him.
That's extortion.

If you said, $150 +$15 shipping and he said Yes, I'll send Monday.

OR

If he agreed to what you asked for in nids and said I'll send Monday.

Then you'd have a legitmate backout.

As it is, you've browbeat a new trader into filing on himself for a bogus reason.

You left him no choice by saying you'd file on him.

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

No further posts in this thread till I have a chance to review it, please.

[MagickalMemories]

You know... I don't really care if it's actually a backout or not. This forum is for posting about OTHERS, not yourself - especially if you're slamming the other guy in the process of reporting yourself.
I'm locking the thread, leaving it up to be sure the OP -as well as any other interested party- has a chance to see this, then removing it.

Eric