Walls wrote:I admitted my guilt. That's good enough. I am not further damaging my already hurt rep when I needn't do it. I would also request this thread be removed.
He got hit with a -10 already. IMHO thats enough, especially so early in his B-Town membership.
There are only a few of us who are honest enough to make a thread like this. I am sure that , like the op, we would have assumed that us admitting our own guilt was proof enough so. I know I would have.
I would say that his honesty was a good facter for him, the fact that the people he was trading with forgave him and do not want to "press charges" is another. Right there, I would say "no blood, no foul". The technicality of no proof being posted should be no problem. Especially because as was said, it could be a precedent that a jerk could reference.
Kudos to you Walls and good luck with the home and missus.
Treat other members with the same dignity, respect and honesty you would like to be treated with.
Not 'pressing charges'? On what and how?
If you mean legally, he did nothing wrong. Yes, he backed out and wasted the other traders rtime and possibly, resources. [packing materials]
But he did get a neg ref, that's almost as far as b-town can do short of banning you; and it is the 'maximum penalty' for a backout.
So he was 'charged and convicted' by1 of his traders; even thoug the guy said he'd trade with him, but still won't.
Heh, I was called a Grognard.
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .
USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777
Sorry, I meant "not pressing charges" in that they were not the ones to come to this section of the forum to post on him feeling that the bad ref was enough.
Treat other members with the same dignity, respect and honesty you would like to be treated with.
So let me get this right.
To give someone a negative ref there is no consequence and no need for proof of them doing anything wrong.I can say"They used a blue box to send me things, I hate blue.It was a negative experience." And I'm all good and within the rules.
But a BO report you need to post proof and PMs and have a good reason.
Personally I would rather have a BO done on me than have a neg ref.At least with the BO you can defend yourself.If I ever got a neg ref I'd probably pack up and quit trading here.
and I can say I would not leave a neg ref for a backout 99.9999999% of the time.It's only the loss of a little time and if your trading on Btown your freakin time ain't that freakin valuble no matter how self important we all feel.
Pete
Never send me anything UPS or that I have to sign for I can't afford to take off work to receive it.Always send with Delivery Conformation,I will do the same.
If you are not in the United States tell me NOW,please.
Make a offer? It's your stuff you should know what you want for it.Seriously you want me to price your stuff for you?
edited my sig per Btown rules.Is this better Miss?
See D!ck
See D!ck run
See D!ck trade on Bartertown
See D!ck not leave a reference
Don't be a D!ck
The guy you neg ALWAYS has 30 days from when he received the neg ref, to dispute it to an Admin.
So something like this:
So let me get this right.
To give someone a negative ref there is no consequence and no need for proof of them doing anything wrong.I can say"They used a blue box to send me things, I hate blue.It was a negative experience." And I'm all good and within the rules.
If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.
OK got it.
Well IMHO "Boohoo he wasted my precious time and I had a negative experience" is just as lame a reason but I bet that wouldn't get reversed.The whole back out forum is a crock.
Never send me anything UPS or that I have to sign for I can't afford to take off work to receive it.Always send with Delivery Conformation,I will do the same.
If you are not in the United States tell me NOW,please.
Make a offer? It's your stuff you should know what you want for it.Seriously you want me to price your stuff for you?
edited my sig per Btown rules.Is this better Miss?
See D!ck
See D!ck run
See D!ck trade on Bartertown
See D!ck not leave a reference
Don't be a D!ck
@fitterpete: I understand where you are coming from and agree with you to a point, but there has to be a "grey area" and I think the backout forum fills this role. I have used it once, after a fellow strung me along for a good long while and never logged back on after commiting to the trade for a few hundred dollars worth of stuff each way. Since I was not out anything but time, I did not ding him with a negative, but I DID leave a backout report on him. I felt that for the annoyance and frustration, I needed to do something. I did not ruin his ref's, but I could not let him get off unblemished either.
If there is some outlandish instance (the blue box example) the powers-that-be would most likely take care of it in the proper fashion, perhaps even admonishing the leaver of the negative/backout. I suspect that if Walls had challenged the negative prior to his initial posting, that it may have been reversed. Kelanen may have even been given a short vacation for it.
However, as has been pointed out, Negative References work both ways. If it is viewed as unwarranted, the leaver will most likely be hurt as much as the receiver. If a person is willing to black-ball another over something petty, then that person will most likely find it hard to work a trade in the future. Especially to those that know the story. As this has unfolded, Walls has come out looking a whole lot better than Kelanen, even with the large reference difference. One has gained sympathy while the other has received a lot of raised eyebrows. Of course, Kelanen has stated that he would rather not deal with folks that do not agree with him, which is certainly his prerogative.
By the letter of the law, as it were, everything appears correct. That may not make it "right", but is is correct. If nothing else, this thread and situation has created a decent discussion and may help clarify things for others in the future. It might even help change policy.
Always remember that your stuff is nearly worthless junk. The other person's items are highly valuable collectibles.
If I owe you a reference, please remind me.
I don't expect people to wait forever for an answer, and expect the same courtesy.
aurak_merc wrote:However, as has been pointed out, Negative References work both ways. If it is viewed as unwarranted, the leaver will most likely be hurt as much as the receiver. If a person is willing to black-ball another over something petty, then that person will most likely find it hard to work a trade in the future. Especially to those that know the story. As this has unfolded, Walls has come out looking a whole lot better than Kelanen, even with the large reference difference. One has gained sympathy while the other has received a lot of raised eyebrows. Of course, Kelanen has stated that he would rather not deal with folks that do not agree with him, which is certainly his prerogative.
fitterpete wrote:So let me get this right.
To give someone a negative ref there is no consequence and no need for proof of them doing anything wrong.I can say"They used a blue box to send me things, I hate blue.It was a negative experience." And I'm all good and within the rules.
But a BO report you need to post proof and PMs and have a good reason.
Personally I would rather have a BO done on me than have a neg ref.At least with the BO you can defend yourself.If I ever got a neg ref I'd probably pack up and quit trading here. and I can say I would not leave a neg ref for a backout 99.9999999% of the time.It's only the loss of a little time and if your trading on Btown your freakin time ain't that freakin valuble no matter how self important we all feel.
Pete
I'd also like to point out, as has been hinted at, but not clarified, if someone leaves an "abusive" negative reference, Admins have the right to leverage consequences against them, up to an outright ban (and, of course, deletion of the neg reference).
I'm in high agreement with the emboldened text above, but only because you stoped short of 100%. : ) There are certain, specific circumstances where I definitely would.
Same rules are for here as for BTR forum regarding neg references. Is someone backs out & receives a neg ref for it, they CAN dispute it. If we think it's not really valid, we WILL delete it. take the OP, for example. If he were to think it was undeserved to receive a -10 for backing out of a trade, and PM an admin with the trade history, etc., we'd judge it on it's own merits and decide whether or not it should remain.
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
i know this question was asked but i don't see an answer . what about the positive ref's left for the deals that never went through? it's kinda important that we make an issue of this as they were undeserved as well as against the rules. i think if this is not delt with it could be a bad example. whats to stop criminals/dishonest people from doing this for there friends and refering to this and how it didn't seem to matter when walls did it so how am i in the wrong.
gammer wrote:i know this question was asked but i don't see an answer . what about the positive ref's left for the deals that never went through? it's kinda important that we make an issue of this as they were undeserved as well as against the rules. i think if this is not delt with it could be a bad example. whats to stop criminals/dishonest people from doing this for there friends and refering to this and how it didn't seem to matter when walls did it so how am i in the wrong.
just saying is all
Jumping the thread a bit - arent we? Start a new thread. You are imagining a problem that does not exist here. No offense- you are being a little paranoid. Ive been here alittle while & havent seen the "criminals" posting alot of fake references for friends. Wait until you are here awhile. And use big letter at the beginning of sentences.
gammer wrote:i know this question was asked but i don't see an answer . what about the positive ref's left for the deals that never went through? it's kinda important that we make an issue of this as they were undeserved as well as against the rules. i think if this is not delt with it could be a bad example. whats to stop criminals/dishonest people from doing this for there friends and refering to this and how it didn't seem to matter when walls did it so how am i in the wrong.
just saying is all
As has been said... start a new thread in an appropriate forum. We'll discuss it there.
FWIW, though, Starslayer, we HAVE seen it happen and... umm... addressed it accordingly...
This thread has just about run it's course for usefulness.
I'm locking it, but leaving it up for those taking part to catch up. Then, I'll be moving it off-board.
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.
Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.
I think what this situation needs is some imagination.
"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell
Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.