PayPal changes to terms

[athelu]

Saw this reddit post today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Miniswap/comme ... s_w_to_be/

The general agreement of interpretation is that PayPal will no longer provide assistance in peer to peer transactions, meaning we likely will not want to use it in our transactions

[reegsk]

There's no real alternative for payment, though. Venmo and CashApp don't have payment protection either. We're right back in the days of sending money orders.

Personally I don't think I'll be doing much business through FB marketplace once this goes into effect. Here you have very dedicated and helpful admins as well as the feedback system. Outside of this site, though...there's nothing really protecting you.

[3eland]

The staff has seen this and we are discussing the changes while seeking more understanding on it all.

Once we understand the changes better, we may (or may not) adjust these new changes into a pinned post so the community can understand how this may (or may not) effect the members of Bartertown.

We strive to keep Bartertown safe and clean, and a part of that is a clear understanding how these changes may effect how our members go about trades.

The more we know, the more you all will know as well.

Thanks!

Ryan

[YoungWolf777]

For those interested, I did receive an email from PayPal with a link to the Policy Updates: PayPal Policy Updates.

The specific point we're talking about is this one:

• We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program.

I found the next one interesting as well:

• We are requiring that buyers attempt to resolve their issues directly with sellers prior to filing a claim with us in order to be eligible for reimbursement under our Purchase Protection Program.

And I also find it interesting that they are extending coverage to certain "intangible" items while dropping coverage for "used" or "resold" items:

• We are expanding our Seller Protection Program to include certain intangible goods and providing the terms and conditions with respect to the coverage of such intangible goods.
• We are adding payments made in respect of gold (in physical form or in exchange-traded form) to the list of ineligible items and transactions under our Seller Protection Policy.

So they will cover intangible items and exchange-traded gold, but not "items intended for resale"? How does this affect online retailers? They are in effect, reselling an item. They buy it from a manufacturer or distributor and resell it at a mark-up. Standard sales model. I wonder how they're going to clarify that one.

[MagickalMemories]

Here is an appropriate exerpt from something I said in our Staff conversation about this:

I followed the link, and there are some potentially alarming things there. I know none of us work for PayPal, so consider any questions I ask to be rhetorical, though discussion of them is welcome:

We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Program does not cover Unauthorized Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.

I wonder what "Unauthorized" will mean.
WE aren't hosted by PayPal. Technically, it's possible that eBay won't consider to be "hosted by PayPal." I guess it depends on how they quantify "hosted."
There's some potentially worrisome [redacted] there.

For “Significantly Not as Described” claims under our Seller Protection Program, we are clarifying that the item may not be returned to sellers or sellers may be required to accept the returned item and pay for the return shipping costs.

Emphasis mine.
"May," or "Might?" There's a grammatical difference there.
Does this mean the buyer is being given permission ("May") to keep the item or to make the seller pay the return shipping costs?
Or are the putting in the possibility ("might") that the seller won't get the item back, or could have to pay return shipping if it's SNAD?

We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program.

WTF does this even MEAN?
If I buy something wholesale to sell on eBay at a markup.... IT IS INTENDED FOR RESALE!
So, the buyer won't be eligible, simply because it's intended for resale?
Whose intentions to they go by? What if I buy an army here with the intention if splitting it up for resale. Now, it's technically intended for resale, even if that's not what THEY mean by that.

This looks like it has the potential to be a mess across the entire intrawebz.

Eric

[reegsk]

One of the trading groups I’m in posted part of a conversation with a PayPal rep that said the policy change is designed to affect transactions between a distributor and a retailer. So if you’re an LGS owner and use PayPal to pay, say, Alliance, it wouldn’t be covered.

But there is another thread on these forums where someone posted their conversation and the person indicated that peer-to-peer transactions wouldn’t be covered.

Personally I don’t take much stock in PayPal’s customer service reps. I had a horrible experience just this month, and they’re clearly not giving a unified answer on this. I think they’ll need to put out an FAQ.

[MagickalMemories]

Agreed.
Seems like every time they put out a change to their rules, they have to FAQ it because they caused confusion.

PayPal is the GW of the payments industry. LOL

Eric

[pretre]

As far as I can tell, this only affects businesses buying items for resale and not sellers selling items that they purchased previously. So hurts people like me, but not general sellers/traders.