Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

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Deathklaat ( 82 )
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Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by Deathklaat » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:41 pm

I have about 7-8 people who owe me trade refs even though i gave them a trade ref, one of these people is a BTown advertiser who owes me TWO trade refs. Maybe we can have a spot to post people who do not reciprocate the trade ref and maybe after owing so many to other people they can't make trade posts?

On this forum our "trustworthiness" comes from our rating that other people can look through to see if we are going to live up to our end of our deal. What is the point of having a trade ref. rating if it isn't going to be followed? This is no different than Ebay, or would you rather have to deal with a forum more the likes of Craigslist where every other post is a SCAM?

Give me a name and shame thread where i can post the names of the people too lazy to follow forum etiquette. Maybe when the email is sent to let someone know they got a ref., to remind them to post one in return.

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pretre ( 1328 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by pretre » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:47 pm

Just add them to your signature. That being said, the only thing you can do to enforce it is to make it a specific part of the deal. I.e.

"Okay, so I'm going to trade you 5 Cadian Guardsmen and a Trade Reference for your 5 Chaos Warriors and a Trade Reference. Correct?"

Then, if they don't post it, it ends up being a bad trader report.

All that being said, Feedback is nice and all but I think you may be getting a bit over dramatic on the impacts of some people not posting. The system works pretty well the way it is now. It is largely voluntary and, if I could guess, the majority of people enter their feedback. Don't sweat it.
People who owe me feedback: Aelorien Darkthorn, Arthas367x2, Bigheaddan, ccaine1, clianez2033, Close Seer, echarlie x2, gamma098, greywolf90, hot_boy_ronald, Inigo Montoya, jamshaman, jkilla, keyoftwilight, lafkak, litsnsirn, monroe126 x2, Mournafein, noexit1982, Palados, Pappasa, prkeller, proofyeq, readingrambo, rwphillipsstl, Skuller, steellegioncpt, TheDean, Voodoopainter, xsoulgrinderx x2, weebph, fuzzystrawberry, godswildcard, rawfist, snakezit, thelaric, dagna, callidusx3, ccaine1

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by 3eland » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:51 am

Well. Remember that feedback is never "owed" to you and is no way policed by our rules.

Therefore, unless you specifically put it in your trade terms and both parties agree, no one actually owes you anything re: trade ref and there is nothing you can do minus sending them a followup PM.

It can be frustrating, yes, so I suggest including it in your trade terms to ensure your trading partner follows up.

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MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:17 am

3eland hit the nail on the head.
Keep in mind, if you do decide to 'name and shame" in your sig line, you have to be VERY CAREFUL how you word it.
Even Pretre kind of just barely makes it. Technically, nobody "owes" anyone a reference on Bartertown unless he specifically agrees that leaving references is part of it. Pretre's sig line passes muster, so-to-speak because there's nothing disparaging the people he says owe him refs.

That being said, have you messaged those people who have not reciprocated? We all get a little scatter-brained from time to time. Also, if you haven't left them a reference, they might be waiting for you to leave the first one. Just spit-balling there.

Myself, I follow 2 rules regarding references:

1) I try to always do as 3e said, and indicate in the trade that we agree to leave positive references for each other, once we're both satisfied. At the end of the trade, I PM and indicate my happiness, asking if they are. If they don't reply, I don't leave a reference. If they do, I do.

2) I believe in "first risk, first reward." If you pay or ship first, I will GLADLY be the first to leave a reference for a trade. Since you went out on the line for your side first, I think the opposite should be reciprocated for references.

If we never agreed to references for a trade, I'll send a PM and ask if you're happy and we can exchange positive references. I only ask once, though.
Granted, I admit my ref score is at a point where a lack of ref doesn't hurt me. Then again, eve when I was at yours, I didn't stress over it.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by DoggNewTrix » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:43 am

I gotta admit it kinda grinds my gears a bit if someone doesn't. If you weren't happy with the deal please let me make it right but the ref is what makes Bartertown what it is (for me anyway) and I feel cheated if I'm denied it. Maybe I'm just being sensitive
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MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:13 am

I don't think you're "just being sensitive" about it.
Honestly, there was a time when it annoyed me, too... this was well before I hit triple digits...
I just decided one day that it wasn't worth the annoyance I was allowing it to cause me.

I would definitely never downplay your feelings about it, though. You're right; one of the great and unique things about Bartertown is our reference system.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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jason1977 ( 186 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by jason1977 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:23 am

Like any of us are gonna catch Pork.
In an act of kindness and respect, please respond to PMs one way or the other with in a timely manner.
Im sorry but I do not ship outside the US.
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Darkfine ( 44 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by Darkfine » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:18 pm

With all due respect the system doesn’t work that well. I have been trading here for a long time and always break my back to make sure everything ends amicably. Regardless because of what I can only assume to be laziness, my record while spotless, is tiny. Having to constantly be the person assuming the risk and waiting for ages despite the fact I am a trustworthy trader is extremely frustrating.
pretre wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:47 pm
Just add them to your signature. That being said, the only thing you can do to enforce it is to make it a specific part of the deal. I.e.

"Okay, so I'm going to trade you 5 Cadian Guardsmen and a Trade Reference for your 5 Chaos Warriors and a Trade Reference. Correct?"

Then, if they don't post it, it ends up being a bad trader report.

All that being said, Feedback is nice and all but I think you may be getting a bit over dramatic on the impacts of some people not posting. The system works pretty well the way it is now. It is largely voluntary and, if I could guess, the majority of people enter their feedback. Don't sweat it.

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:07 pm

The system works perfectly fine. It's the people you've been trading with who aren't "work[ing] that well."
What have you done to structure your deals, so that references are a requisite part of the deal?

We do not and never will REQUIRE references to be left as part of a trade. That is just the way it is.
The site is full of information, though, on how to structure a trade ad to include refs as part of the deal.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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pretre ( 1328 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by pretre » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:10 pm

Darkfine wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:18 pm
With all due respect the system doesn’t work that well. I have been trading here for a long time and always break my back to make sure everything ends amicably. Regardless because of what I can only assume to be laziness, my record while spotless, is tiny. Having to constantly be the person assuming the risk and waiting for ages despite the fact I am a trustworthy trader is extremely frustrating.
Have you tried reaching out to the people and asking them to leave feedback? I used to do that and I got a lot more hits.
People who owe me feedback: Aelorien Darkthorn, Arthas367x2, Bigheaddan, ccaine1, clianez2033, Close Seer, echarlie x2, gamma098, greywolf90, hot_boy_ronald, Inigo Montoya, jamshaman, jkilla, keyoftwilight, lafkak, litsnsirn, monroe126 x2, Mournafein, noexit1982, Palados, Pappasa, prkeller, proofyeq, readingrambo, rwphillipsstl, Skuller, steellegioncpt, TheDean, Voodoopainter, xsoulgrinderx x2, weebph, fuzzystrawberry, godswildcard, rawfist, snakezit, thelaric, dagna, callidusx3, ccaine1

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YoungWolf777 ( 1096 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by YoungWolf777 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:49 pm

I have to agree with all of the advice given. I always follow up after a trade / sale / buy. If it's a trade, it's most likely that the other party shipped first to me due to my rep. Even then, I always follow up once the other party has received their package to make sure they are satisfied and to give me a chance to make things right if they are not. If they indicate that they are satisfied, then I ask that they please leave me a ref and tell them that I will do the same. I do that immediately so that I don't forget. That has worked for me 99.8% of the time. I can think of three people that have not left me a ref over the years. Even after 4 digits I find it annoying, but not so much as to want to pester them or try to shame them in to doing so. That's just not how I roll.

In the case of a BT advertiser, I would definitely follow up. I know most of them have a lot of deals going at once, and not just here on BT. It's easy to lose track of things like that. Guys like pretre above have always been standouts in their diligence and service in my experience.

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pretre ( 1328 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by pretre » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:12 pm

Aww, thanks. I do forget too though and always appreciate a friendly reminder.
People who owe me feedback: Aelorien Darkthorn, Arthas367x2, Bigheaddan, ccaine1, clianez2033, Close Seer, echarlie x2, gamma098, greywolf90, hot_boy_ronald, Inigo Montoya, jamshaman, jkilla, keyoftwilight, lafkak, litsnsirn, monroe126 x2, Mournafein, noexit1982, Palados, Pappasa, prkeller, proofyeq, readingrambo, rwphillipsstl, Skuller, steellegioncpt, TheDean, Voodoopainter, xsoulgrinderx x2, weebph, fuzzystrawberry, godswildcard, rawfist, snakezit, thelaric, dagna, callidusx3, ccaine1

Darkfine ( 44 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by Darkfine » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 pm

Ultimately it isn’t a big deal and I’m not into pestering folks. It would be nice if the community as a whole could see a good trader and pay upfront/ship at the same time but I’m used to it at this point.

I’d like to add however, I’m very grateful for the site and all the hard work behind the scenes. Truly is a great community service!

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by MagickalMemories » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:23 am

Darkfine wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 pm
Ultimately it isn’t a big deal and I’m not into pestering folks. It would be nice if the community as a whole could see a good trader and pay upfront/ship at the same time but I’m used to it at this point.
You're right that it would be nice.
Nobody reasonable is going to argue with you, of course.
That is why I give the advice that I do.
Ask around to the people on my ref list. Anyone trading with me for the first time, or anyone with a low ref count, or if I'm just unfamiliar with them will get a little blurb in the PM that finalizes the deal.
"You send X, I send Y and, when we have both received our side of the trade, we agree to exchange positive references."
Make sure they agree.

You see, if you leave someone a reference, but they don't reciprocate, and you complain to us (staff) about it, there's nothing we're going to do.
On the other hand, if you've AGREED to exchange references and they don't leave their side an Admin will be HAPPY to remove the reference you left for them. If they won't leave yours after agreeing to it, they don't get theirs. We'll PM them to tell them, as well. It's about living up to your side of the trade, at that point. In fact, after we remove the positive, you might TECHNICALLY be able to leave them a neutral or negative for not living up to their side of the deal... but everyone will think you're an @sshole, even if you're right. So I wouldn't suggest pushing that particular envelope. LOL

Ref scores are IMPORTANT to this site, and all staff knows it. We also support our rules (re: non-enforcement). But, if you give us a chance to enforce that particular thing because you made sure to write it into your trade agreement? HELL, YEAH, we're going to enjoy taking that reference back!
Darkfine wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 pm
I’d like to add however, I’m very grateful for the site and all the hard work behind the scenes. Truly is a great community service!
Thank you. We sincerely appreciate the kind words.

Know what else we appreciate?
a) Buy from our advertisers and, when you do, make sure they know you're buying from them BECAUSE they advertise here (it's the fees we change THEM that makes the site free for YOU)
b) Give us money. You can sign up to be a Bartertown Plus member for only $25 a year... or, you can just send us a few bucks because you like us. :mrgreen:

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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porkuslime ( 3094 )
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Re: Can we do something about people who do not give Trade Refs?

Post by porkuslime » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:31 pm

jason1977 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:23 am
Like any of us are gonna catch Pork.
umm.. out of context, this is wierd..

IN Context.. well.. not as wierd.. but I think that HarveyDent caught me (EDIT - nope.. still over Harv by 150)
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

I use the Unofficial Porkuslime Trading Guidelines - if you have way less refs.. you ship first.

Folks I am awaiting a ref from.. Zack

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