Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w »

kturock wrote:Bases come on sprues. So NOS must include bases.
You are factually incorrect. Stop arguing this specific point. The trade terms are as shown, and NOS EXPLICITLY says that bases might not be included.
pretre wrote:
Might. Up to the seller to clarify that.
I agree, in general. I also think all traders on BT should make extensive use of the trade terms. If only our reality were such....
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kturock ( 590 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by kturock »

WTF??? How am I facually incorrect? The bases come on sprues. NOS means still on sprues.

It really sounds to me that you are 'protesting to strongly' to misquote Shakespeare.
The NOS 'terms' on btown then needs to be changed. What it says is obviously contrary what is common thought.

Man, you must be a true RAW in 40k.


s_o_r_r_o_w wrote:
kturock wrote:Bases come on sprues. So NOS must include bases.
You are factually incorrect. Stop arguing this specific point. The trade terms are as shown, and NOS EXPLICITLY says that bases might not be included.
pretre wrote:
Might. Up to the seller to clarify that.
I agree, in general. I also think all traders on BT should make extensive use of the trade terms. If only our reality were such....
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w »

kturock wrote:WTF??? How am I facually incorrect? The bases come on sprues. NOS means still on sprues.

It really sounds to me that you are 'protesting to strongly' to misquote Shakespeare.
The NOS 'terms' on btown then needs to be changed. What it says is obviously contrary what is common thought.

Man, you must be a true RAW in 40k.
Well, first, not all bases come on sprues.

Second, you're factually incorrect because of how the trade terms are clearly written and defined. We considered bases etc when we wrote them. Your "common thought" is not universal, hence the trade terms. Reflect on your own experiences with what "common thought" about what can go in an envelope is.

Third, I lean heavily towards legal positivism because that is, largely, the entire point of having a law.

If I don't like a RAW, I'll house rule it in my gaming group, and make sure that everyone knows what the new rule is. When I go to tournaments, I expect RAW to be the first and primary interpretation. Where RAW conflicts with RAW, I can accept a certain amount of RAI.

This isn't because I think that the Rules are perfectly written--I don't. But what's the point of writing them if not to read and then apply them?
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by MagickalMemories »

"I have a finecast Marneus Calgar NOS" refers to Marneus as NOS. Therefore, no base is obligated IMO.

"I have a Mint Condition Marneus Calgar" refers to Marneus as Mint Condition.
Did a Google search on "Define Mint Condition" for clarity:
Mint condition is an expression used in the description of pre-owned goods. Originally, the phrase related to the way collectors described the condition of coins. As the name given to a coin factory is a "mint", then mint condition is the condition a coin is in when it leaves the mint.
If we interpret "the mint" as "the manufacturer" (since "the mint" manufactures coins), then it makes sense to think a base will be included with a "mint" item.


Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Brian Khazad ( 114 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by Brian Khazad »

MM, that was why I was confused about the bases. " mint condition is the condition a coin is in when it leaves the mint." This is how I interpret Mint - the condition an item is in when it leaves the place of manufacture. When the scouts left the GW plant (or whatever), they had bases with them. Ergo, since mint means an item that is in the condition it was in when it leaves the place of manufacture, models listed as "mint" would imply that all parts are there as it is "when it leaves the mint" (or place of manufacture.

Sorry, Sorrow. For whatever it's worth, I'm with MM and Kturock on this. I acknowledge partial responsibility for not actually asking for clarification, but I still believe mint implies complete.
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by MagickalMemories »

The only "free pass" I'd give my trade partner is if it was still unopened, meaning the manufacturer had a packing error.

Now, don't get me wrong... I have some bases lying around. So, I don't think I'd have them send me a base, unless it was a special base (like with the FW Ork Biker Boss). I'd still mention it, though.

Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Brian Khazad ( 114 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by Brian Khazad »

I did mention it, which was what lead to the pissy responses from the seller and what lead me to make the original post. I didn't ask for or demand the bases, I just asked about them.

"The package arrived this morning about 20 minutes ago. The first thing I noticed was that there are no bases for the scouts. Everything else looks good, but that wasn't what I was expecting. Your email offer mentioned "200+ Metal Scouts in various conditions including 100 +/- mint bare metal" and didn't mention that they were missing their bases."
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w »

Agree with whoever you like.

I might advance the argument that mint, as it relates to figs and coins, refers to what comes out of the casting process or die--namely, the pristine metal object.

Let me ask you this...did the figs come with all the flash and vent lines on them? Was the bipod attached by the tag to the heavy bolter?

Regardless, "mint", as it relates to figs, is not a recognized trade term on Bartertown.

Tighten up your diction, enjoy superior results.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by jason1977 »

Image
A kitten to calm this down a bit.

Rule 4a:

Rule 4a: "You are also responsible for accurately describing all items that you are trading or selling.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you. "
Linrandir

As the OP never mentioned anything about bases in add one should lean toward them not being sent. If unsure, ask.
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w »

The problem, Jason, is that the OP here argues that the bases are "missing", and therefore the Seller should have disclosed the flaw.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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jason1977 ( 208 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by jason1977 »

s_o_r_r_o_w wrote:The problem, Jason, is that the OP here argues that the bases are "missing", and therefore the Seller should have disclosed the flaw.
Im sorry. I meant the OP on the trade add. Only bad on Brian's part was not asking to make sure the bases were there during trade/sale talks.
In an act of kindness and respect, please respond to PMs one way or the other with in a timely manner.
Im sorry but I do not ship outside the US.
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MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Re: Question about a trade - did I misunderstand?

Post by MagickalMemories »

I see a number of posts that come across as angry or a bit upset.
I think we ALL need to keep in mind that this is merely a discussion; an exchange of opinion.

In the end, we might not change anyone's minds, but this will help us all understand more about how OTHER people communicate, making us better buyers and sellers.

As for the definition of mint meaning that flashing, etc. should be included, I offer three options (with links) for comparison:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mint-condition
mint condition
noun
in new or like-new condition

Examples
In stamps, mint condition means unused.
Applying the "stamps" example, a lot of JANKY models could be described this way.
"My dog chewed it up, but i never actually used it... so, i guess it's mint."
Yeah. That would (in most opinions, I'd wager) be an improper use of "mint." I'm just exagerrating for effect, since we HAVE had traders here in the past who i could easily have seen try something like this.


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... +condition
mint condition
A condition where something is perfect or as if it was originally manufactured.

A state where something has no flaws.
"As if it was originally manufactured" could be seen as ambiguous. On one hand, if you're referring to the end product of the manufacturing process, then you're talking about the inclusion of a base. If you are referring to the early steps of the process, it could support the "with flashing" point. There is a lot of subjectivity here.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mint_condition
Mint condition is an expression used in the description of pre-owned goods. Originally, the phrase related to the way collectors described the condition of coins. As the name given to a coin factory is a "mint", then mint condition is the condition a coin is in when it leaves the mint.

Variations

The term mint condition may be used to describe a variety of collectible items, including action figures, dolls, toys, stamps,[1] records,[2] comic books and similar items.[3] The term may have a slightly different meaning in each case. For instance, when describing trading cards, "perfect" condition is used to describe the condition as it is when pulled from a pack, while "mint" would be new but opened. Similar graduations of mint condition exist for other collectibles based on their specific characteristics. For example, a postage stamp may be mint or mint never hinged.

Abbreviations include:[4]

NRFB – Never removed from box
MIB – Mint in box
MIP – Mint in package
MOC – Mint on card (For accessories sold attached to a card)
Now, this is my favorite of the three. I know.. I like the wordiest one. SURPRISE! LOL
I like it for that reason, though. it goes into more depth than the others. It calls out that it can be used for different items and that the definition might vary between items. What I like about it the most is that what i see as the most important part of the definition can be applied to almost anything commercially created:
"As the name given to a coin factory is a "mint", then mint condition is the condition a coin is in when it leaves the mint."

Make the reference from "coin" to any other item and change "mint" at the end of the quote into "showroom" or "factory" or "manufacturer" or "dealership" or "assembly line" or any of a multitude of locations, and it's applicable. Obviously, other descriptors might change, depending on the item (you wouldn't refer to a 'car factory" as a showroom... but you'd refer to a dealership as one).

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.
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