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starslayer ( 560 )
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Re: Shipping item first without payment!!!!

Post by starslayer » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:13 pm

I apologize to Wags if I was harsh. But the "send money first cuz paypal will protect you" line gets old after awhile.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: Shipping item first without payment!!!!

Post by kturock » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:26 pm

MagickalMemories wrote:
Sinjin wrote:This is a huge fallacy. Paypal offers very little if any real protection. 1st, Paypal has to side with you (I've personally had Paypal rule against me when someone didn't ship what I paid for...don't know what they told them, but it worked). 2nd, Paypal doesn't give you your money back, what they do is take your funds back from the other parties account. Well, if that account is empty then you're SOL. So all someone has to do is empty their Paypal account before you file the claim and you'll never see a dime.
A lot of people share the above opinion but don't realize that they are not exactly correct.
I haven't looked recently but, at the time that I opened my account, I had to agree that I would allow PayPal to debit my attached accounts for any negative amounts in my account.
Let's go with that idea a moment...
You pay me. I spend the money. I don't send.
You file with PayPal and they side with you.
At this point PayPal can give you the money, throw my account into a negative balance, and debit the checking account which is attached to my PayPal account, per their rules.
The thing is that PayPal DOESN'T do that. It's more work for them.
I have heard of people, in the past, calling PayPal and getting them to do what I outlined above when the person's account didn't have the available funds.

This does not mean that, in any way, I support the "Buyers should pay first because PayPal protects them" p.o.v. I don't.
It just means that the people who make statements like the one quoted above are not necessarily correct.
starslayer wrote:Their next statement will be "Bartertown sucks."
Not pointing you out, specifically. Quoting you for the above line.
A few comments in this thread, towards Wag-A-Tail are... less than kind. If the guy comes on here and gives his opinion, only to be slammed for being an ignorant newbie... he's just as likely to make that same statement.
Whether your ref score is 2 or 2000, you're free to state your opinions here (respectfully). If you disagree with someone's opinion, please disagree respectfully.

Thanks.

Eric


Wait a minute. I recall YOU, Eric [MM] saying in either a pm to me or post, that you are/were in the banking industry and because of the way that Paypal is structed, because it's not a bank, it CAN NOT draw money form your account UNLESS you specificlly allow, per transaction.

SO now you're saying the direct opposite? WTF?
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Sinjin ( 182 )
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Re: Shipping item first without payment!!!!

Post by Sinjin » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:35 am

MagickalMemories wrote:A lot of people share the above opinion but don't realize that they are not exactly correct.
I haven't looked recently but, at the time that I opened my account, I had to agree that I would allow PayPal to debit my attached accounts for any negative amounts in my account.
Let's go with that idea a moment...
You pay me. I spend the money. I don't send.
You file with PayPal and they side with you.
At this point PayPal can give you the money, throw my account into a negative balance, and debit the checking account which is attached to my PayPal account, per their rules.
The thing is that PayPal DOESN'T do that. It's more work for them.
I have heard of people, in the past, calling PayPal and getting them to do what I outlined above when the person's account didn't have the available funds.
I could totally be wrong, it's been a long time since I set up my Paypal account, but I thought linking your PayPal to your bank account was optional

MagickalMemories ( 828 )
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Re: Shipping item first without payment!!!!

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:24 am

kturock wrote: Wait a minute. I recall YOU, Eric [MM] saying in either a pm to me or post, that you are/were in the banking industry and because of the way that Paypal is structed, because it's not a bank, it CAN NOT draw money form your account UNLESS you specificlly allow, per transaction.

SO now you're saying the direct opposite? WTF?
Context is everything.
By having a PayPal account, you agree to their terms. If the terms still state what I said above (and I still haven't double-checked), then you have given them permission.
They can only take money under certain instances.

For example... You send me $100. I spend that $100 with my PayPal debit card, but never send the stuff.
You file with PayPal.
PayPal sides in your favor.
They go to give you money from my account, but it's at a $0 balance.
They tell you they'll put a hold on my account, wait for it to be back in there, pay you when it's funded, etc.
In this case, they can't take money from my account to give to YOU.

Example #2:
You send me $100. I spend that $100 with my PayPal debit card, but never send the stuff.
You file with PayPal.
PayPal sides in your favor.
They go to give you money from my account, but it's at a $0 balance.
They pay you from their own pockets, then charge it to me. Now, it is a debt I owe to PayPal
PayPal takes money from my linked account to settle my debt to them.

Again... it's been a while, but I recall at least one time here where the person pressed enough to have this happen. It was not until after someone pointed the Terms & Conditions out to the person that they pressed it. The T&C may have changed by now.

Sinjin wrote:I could totally be wrong, it's been a long time since I set up my Paypal account, but I thought linking your PayPal to your bank account was optional
It is... but you have to link SOMETHING to be a verified PayPal account. If not your bank, then a Credit Card. I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that the agreement would cover a credit card account as handily as it would a checking or savings account.
There was a time when you didn't HAVE to link anything, but you couldn't be a verified account, which means that the only way to get money out of your PayPal account was to send it to someone as a payment for purchase. There was no transferring it to your bank account.
With the way they've tightened down security now, compared to 12+ years ago when I opened my account, that might no longer be a rule.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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don_mondo ( 572 )
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Re: Shipping item first without payment!!!!

Post by don_mondo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:09 pm

And all this debate over what Paypal does or does not do/cover is precisely why most of us prefer not to have to deal with it. If you are an established trader here, I don't have a problem paying first. If you are brand new (ie an unproven quantity), I'm far less likely to do so. If that means you won't deal with me, so be it.
Don "MONDO"

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