New Trader Advice

[the_oswald]

Hello,

I've looked through the FAQ and Readmes of the site and haven't seen anything adressing this question: what suggestions do you have for two people who both have no references to be safe and secure with their trade.

First time here and would love the advice.

Thanks.

[DenverZeppo]

I don't know about anyone else around here, but when my rating was 0 I never dealt with anyone who didn't have the rating to warrant me shipping first. My first deals were with 600+, 60+, 30+, and then finally a mid-teens rating with good comments.

My advice for a trade between two people with no rating?

Don't.

If you do really want the stuff, then find someone with a rating worthy of trust that might be willing to act as an intermediary for some small compensation. Using escrow companies is a standard part of big business, it's actually amazing to me that no one is advertising one on Bartertown.

[starslayer]

To be as safe as possible, dont trade with low/zero ref members. Deal with members with a high rating, proven record. Dont fall for "buying is different, pay me first".

When dealing with a member with zero/very low refs, you are taking a much larger risk, then a member with 100+. It might turn out OK, but then again.....

Dont beleive me? Check out the Dead Beat & Bad Trader sections. Most are members with low/no refs.

[Bahamut_Dragonlord]

I think there was talk of escrow type stuff for bartertown, but I think it was cost prohibitive with insurance. I would suggest exactly as DZ did and try to deal with higher rating folks at first to get used to the system.

[the_oswald]

It all definitely makes sense. I might look for an escrow person if this offer stands. Otherwise I'll probably have to just pass on it, as sad as that might make me. Better safe than sorry.

[DenverZeppo]

I think there was talk of escrow type stuff for bartertown, but I think it was cost prohibitive with insurance. I would suggest exactly as DZ did and try to deal with higher rating folks at first to get used to the system.

To be totally fair "getting used to the system" wasn't my motivation for doing it that way.

My motivation was far more selfish, by dealing with people who had ratings and a proven track record I felt like I was less likely to get screwed over. I watched Bartertown after joining and didn't make a single trade for about a month here, and in that time I saw several BTRs and deadbeat reports, and the thing they most had in common were trader ratings in the 10 or less area, before those people even got hit by the -10 for a bad reference.

Quite simply, I avoided trading with people who didn't have a track record because it substantially lowers the risk of being dissatisfied with a deal. Since joining a little less than a year I've had 16 positive trading experiences as a result of being choosey about who I deal with, not choosey in "oh noez, I don't know or like this person", but choosey as in "that looks like a good deal, let's check out ratings and see if I want to deal". Now my rating is still only in the 30s after a year, but being choosey and taking things slow in the first year allowed me to be a little less choosey now. A great deal from a trader with a rating of 2, now I know they're sending first, or I'm passing, either way, no risk to me.

My advice on this trade? A deal between two people with (0) ratings. Just don't do it. Yes, you might be missing out on a deal, but you're also missing out on the risk, and other deals will come along.

[3eland]

To be as safe as possible, dont trade with low/zero ref members. Deal with members with a high rating, proven record. Dont fall for "buying is different, pay me first".

When dealing with a member with zero/very low refs, you are taking a much larger risk, then a member with 100+. It might turn out OK, but then again.....

Dont beleive me? Check out the Dead Beat & Bad Trader sections. Most are members with low/no refs.

That's not entirely fair to say. I have been a member since Aug '11 and only have 3 trades (4 but the guy refuses to leave me a reference). I usually log in to Bartertown at least once a day and I enjoy reading through the posts, I am just not always looking for something to buy/sell or what I do want is taken (darn early birds) or it's a few models and the poster refuses to split (which is fair). That being said, unless I happen to come across a post to do with a high reference member I am more than likely only going to trade with low to mid reference people. Just because some members don't have a huge trade record doesn't mean they can't be trusted, how are they going to increase their rating otherwise? Also, you can't say that the more the references the better, I have seen a few back out and bad trader reports involving mid to high reference members too. Yes, not a lot but it still happens.

[Imaginos]

Focus your trades on members with high number of references and/or long time members. Definitely check everyone's references, even if they have a high total. Don't be afraid to ask about splitting shipments or payment. Don't be offended when someone with a lot of references asks you to ship or pay first - it isn't a rule of the board, but part of what builds this place is that people earn their stripes.

Also, search their username and real name on the forum. Sometimes scammers will reregister under a different username, but you can find their real name in BTR's.

[MagickalMemories]

Also... exchange phone numbers. Home phone, preferred. SPEAK on the phone.
Ask for email addresses and links to Facebook profiles.
Only ship to HOME addresses.

The more someone allows you to touch base with them in less anonymous ways, the more likely that they're legit.

ALWAYS be willing to give information about yourself that matches what you're asking from others.

It IS easier to trade only with higher rated traders at first but, just sometimes, that other 0 rated guy has something you REALLY want.


Eric

[tordeck]

My first trade here was with 3eland and we were both 0 traders, going across international borders and trading probably a thousand dollars were of merch each way. And nothing at all went badly. We both worked off faith in the other and it worked out fine.

But I can fully understand that one may not be willing to work on that with low ref traders so then the above advice is sound.

The other option if youre really worried is (not sure if the staff here are willing but we do it on a m:tg site i frequent) for each of you to send to a third party that has a load of refs and they then can hold till both sides get to them and then send off to the parties involved.

[MagickalMemories]

In essence, Tordeck, that's what an escrow service is.
Bartertown does not offer such a service and does not endorse ANYONE, regardless of their references, to be used as one. Actual escrow services are insured out the wazoo, in case of fraud or loss. An individual would likely have no such insurance.

It's very logical to make that decision on your own and find someone with a ton of trades under their belt to do that for you, but we can't/won't endorse anyone.

Eric

[starslayer]

To be as safe as possible, dont trade with low/zero ref members. Deal with members with a high rating, proven record. Dont fall for "buying is different, pay me first".

When dealing with a member with zero/very low refs, you are taking a much larger risk, then a member with 100+. It might turn out OK, but then again.....

Dont beleive me? Check out the Dead Beat & Bad Trader sections. Most are members with low/no refs.

That's not entirely fair to say. I have been a member since Aug '11 and only have 3 trades (4 but the guy refuses to leave me a reference). I usually log in to Bartertown at least once a day and I enjoy reading through the posts, I am just not always looking for something to buy/sell or what I do want is taken (darn early birds) or it's a few models and the poster refuses to split (which is fair). That being said, unless I happen to come across a post to do with a high reference member I am more than likely only going to trade with low to mid reference people. Just because some members don't have a huge trade record doesn't mean they can't be trusted, how are they going to increase their rating otherwise? Also, you can't say that the more the references the better, I have seen a few back out and bad trader reports involving mid to high reference members too. Yes, not a lot but it still happens.

Its entirely fair. What did I say that is untrue? I said "as safe as possible". I didnt say every new /low rank member is bad. I never said every high rating member is always good. I never said low rank members cant be trusted, so dont put words in my mouth. I never said there are no bad reports that are for high rank members.
You are taking it the wrong way. If you dont want to put the odds in your favor and take the least amount of risk, then dont.
So tell me - you are making a high dollar deal $400+ and you have a choice of two members.
One has been here 6 months and a rating of 6.
The other has been here 5 years and has a rating of 300.
Which do you choose? Why?

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

Just because some members don't have a huge trade record doesn't mean they can't be trusted, how are they going to increase their rating otherwise? Also, you can't say that the more the references the better, I have seen a few back out and bad trader reports involving mid to high reference members too. Yes, not a lot but it still happens.

You're right, but:

The ref system turns on the idea that members with high ratings have demonstrated their ability to make good trades, whereas members with low ratings have not done so.

The key point is demonstrated. Most low rated traders are honest people, and every high-rated trader was a low-rated trader once.

It is in the interest of high-rated traders to continue to practice good trades, since a lot of effort has been expended in building that rating.

Low rated traders have less to lose if they are not committed to a long relationship with Bartertown.

Any member can trade with any other member, as they choose--but in calculating risk, any actuary will look at available data, including personal history. Bartertown members get a short-cut in the form of refs, which, as you point out, can be incompete--and are not a guarantee of any sort--but which do indicate trends.

[tordeck]

In essence, Tordeck, that's what an escrow service is.
Bartertown does not offer such a service and does not endorse ANYONE, regardless of their references, to be used as one. Actual escrow services are insured out the wazoo, in case of fraud or loss. An individual would likely have no such insurance.

It's very logical to make that decision on your own and find someone with a ton of trades under their belt to do that for you, but we can't/won't endorse anyone.

Eric

Ahh, we just call it 3rd party trading and has worked so far without any insurance or what not. Its just done by the staff and select approved members. Its not required but it is suggested for all high value trades there.

[Stanislav]

It all boils down to risk management. I have dealt with many lower rated individuals in the last several years, all of them came through with flying colors.

I would call your first few trades "getting your feet wet". Trading with members with a higher rating will show you some of the ins and outs of Bartertown. Not saying a higher rating makes you perfect, but at least they have done it a few times and might be able to give you some pointers.

After you get your first few trades under your belt, well...it's time to go swimming.

I don't completely believe in the idea of paying for an item afterwards if you are the higher rated individual. I mean, with 0-low rating...I might be a little bit picky. I am not going to throw out several hundred dollars on a deal like that...but $20-30? Probably so, if the item is something I really want. Risk management.

Rich