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Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed back

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xcom ( 94 )
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Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed back

Post by xcom » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:29 am

So I use to be big into WHFB, but stopped shortly after 7th edition came out. Not because I didn't like the game. I stopped mainly because most of the local players where dropping FB and 40k, and moving on to Warmachine. I do enjoy playing WarmaHordes, and do enjoy the fact that Privateer Press updates their armies as a while much more regularly then GW ever did. Last year I moved from one coast line to another, and the new places I play do have a nice WHFB community. So the fantasy bug has bit me and I'm looking to get back into the game again. I use to have a Lizard and Dwarf army that I played. I needed money a few years ago, and did end up selling my complete Lizardmen army, and parts of my Dwarfs. So I've been looking over the armies but not sure what I would like to get into.

Changes to 8th that I'm aware of:
* For spearmen, the 3rd rank can attack now if you have a block at least 10 wide, and with at least 30 troops in it. Units with martial prowess (just high elves?) special rule allows them to attack with 4 ranks now if they have at least 4 ranks of troops.
* Getting the charge in no longer means you get to automatically attack first?
* Magic works completely differently now?

Dwarfs:
I do still have a decent core set of Dwarfs to use. I know they are still using the same army book that I was using over 7 years ago and they really haven't changed at all. I've been hearing that they are getting an update sometime in March of 2014. I don't expect the update to change them much, but I do expect them to (hopefully) get new plastic models next year. A new unit of something would be nice to. So I'm pretty much going to wait and see what happens in March before I get back into them.

Lizardmen:
I love the way the new stuff looks, but I think I'm going to hold off on getting back into them.

High Elves:
I really like the way the new High Elves look. Since I need to learn the changes to the new rules, I've been tempted to pick up the Isle of Blood starter box and go from there. The only thing that's been stopping me from doing that is the fact at least half of the local players play High Elves.

Tomb Kings:
Really love the way they look and feel. I know they use to have to activate their units in a certain order. Not sure if that's still true or not.

Bretonnia:
A whole army of mounted troops really does appeal to me. Not sure who has the oldest army book at the moment, Bretonnia or Wood Elves. Something I saw on Bell of Lost Souls that said that current rumors hint at them finally getting an upgrade sometime in late 2014 when 9th edition comes out. Hmmm......

Ogres:
Tempting, but not sure. Everything is big, hard hitting, and have more then 1 wound. (Except the gnobbler things.) Always going to be outnumbered though, but 1 ogre fights like 4-5 normal troops. Since it's a smaller army, that means less to paint! *heh* Pretty much a straightforward, get into the thick of things fast, and smash face army.

The only other armies that even kinda appeal to me is orcs and maybe skaven. The rest of the armies are all "meh" to me. I just don't know which way to go with fantasy at the moment. Any feedback would be nice so I can make up my mind on which way to go with this.

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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by 3eland » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:21 pm

Welcome back to Fantasy! (Maybe)

Let me express my opinions as well as some of the changes in 8th.

Spearmen (or anyone with spears) now get an additional rank of supporting attacks, so if you have say a 6 wide by 5 deep unit, the first rank will get all of its normal attacks, then two additional ranks will get 1 supporting attack. So, if you horde them up, you have your normal attacks from the first rank and an additional 3 ranks of attacks due to the horde giving you an extra rank! In a Lizardmen saurus unit, 10 wide by say 4 back, that means every single model gets to attack! (as long as every model is in base to base with something of course).

Charging in no longer means you go first. It goes by initiative order now, so if a Skaven clanrat was charged by say, an Ogre, the Skaven would go first as they have higher initiative.

The way magic works is at the beginning of the magic phase you roll 2 d6, you take the total roll for your power dice (to a maximum of 12) and your opponent takes the highest dice rolled for his dispel dice. Say you have a level 2 wizard and a level 4 wizard, each would generate spells randomly on each given lore table that they chose (so let's say life and fire for whatever simplicity it may make) for the amount of levels (so the level 2 would have 2 spells, the level 4 would have 4), then, each wizard is allowed to cast any of their spells, using up to 6 power dice for each attempt. Let's say I need to roll a 10 on a spell with my level 4, I decide to roll 3 d6 and get a 12, I then add my wizard level to the casting result for a total of 16. The enemy then has to choose a wizard, roll any number of dispel dice (up to a max of 6), add his wizard level and if he ties or beats my roll, the spell is dispelled. Your army can also roll to dispel but they don't add anything to the roll.


Dwarfs: They have not changed as of yet, still the slow, stunted, warmachine awesomeness they have always been. Rumour states they will be getting a very nice release come 2014 but with all things GW, your going to have to wait to see if it's true.

Lizardmen: These guys are my first army, so I would automatically suggest to go back to them LOL. But in all seriousness, they have gotten less broken (yes, they were broken, even coming from a guy who ran double Slanns and other"broken" lists). They all work as a unison now, for example: all Saurus Warriors have a special rule that allows them to generate an additional attack on a 6, cool right? Your looking at maybe 2-3 extra attacks (attacks, not wounds, so still have to roll to hit), not a big game changer but enough to help them since they attack at I1 with ws3. The downfall to our little gift is that we MUST pursue a unit that flees from combat unless there is a Skink character within 6" of us. Most people are like "What? a Slann Mage can't stop a unit of Saurus but a Skink can?" You have to realize fluff wise, the Slann doesn't "order" around the army, the Skinks Chiefs and Priests are in control of the everyday activities so you can see they are bringing the fluff into the rules. Skinks are still aquatic, but better then before IMO. Slann got 25 points more expensive, they toned down his brokenness, gave him the ability to buy disciplines (each discipline costs a different point value). Magic items have changed but some of the old ones are still there, cube is still there (got better). New monsters include the Bastiladon, an awesome monster that shoots laser beams or snakes whichever you choose to field. A Troglodon which some say is our second Slann (you can channel missiles and direct damage through Skink Priests so this big monster just runs around channelling your Slann spells). The Trog also makes all Saurus units special rule activate on a 5 and 6 rather than a 6 but its a small bubble and a one time use. Ripperdactyls are piranhas on crack that can fly, they are a fun unit. Terradons are still "meh". Overall I enjoyed the new release, they brought the fluff into the army and made everything work together. Oh and swarms are now no longer useless! If they are in base to base with an enemy unit, ALL Lizardmen units in the same combat have poison attacks... so those rolls of 6 that generate extra attacks? They also auto-wound!

The new High Elves were redone well, they are a huge contender in Tier 1 and you can definitely see it on the battlefield, two friends of mine runs High Elves and I have played many armies against them and the High Elves always do well. They have a hard time killing big creatures though, I know they hate running against my Lizardmen monster mash list, but it still goes well for them. The new phoenixes are awesome! They can really change how a combat will end, the frost phoenix makes all units in base to base always strikes last and a -1 to their strength! So those S4 Ogres or Lizards are now mere humans! I find they can still be either really shooty or really combat oriented. Overall a solid army and definitely one that can bring diversity to the table. Plus, you Always Strike First and since you have super high initiative your pretty much always re-rolling misses.

Tomb Kings have changed drastically, they are a very strategic army and definitely not an army a first timer should pick up unless they want the continuous challenge. They are still very shooty but with the new monsters you can do a heavy combat list now and still do very well. You no longer have to activate them in a certain order but the Heirophant still exists and if he dies and you have no other priests around your army crumbles. I used to play until recently and I have seen a 2500 list crumble into dust after taking a cannon (and failing enough Look Out Sirs) and losing my Heirophant, and then having my second priest picked off shortly after. Yeah, it hurts to lose them, since you must take a leadership roll at the end of the phase that you lose the Heirophant and takes wounds for however many points you go over your LD. Then, at the beginning of your turn you must again take a leadership test and continue. Your army literally crumbles, not to mention they cannot flee for any reason and are unstable, I took a huge beating from an Ogre army and everything just crumbled to dust, he won (obviously) but I was doing the most damage killing myself due to high LD rolls LOL! Still though, they are a solid army still and can get some really tough lists (I once ran a 100 archer unit, spread across the back of my board with Queen khalida who gave them poison and use her BS (remember Tomb Kings take no modifiers to shooting so will always hit on a 5, or 4 with the Queen), then I parked two caskets on the side, and held the line with spearmen lol man was that a show!).

Bretonnia... I have never played against them or played them myself so cannot input here.

Ogres, oh Ogres... They are tough, and not because they are T4, but because they have 3 wounds, have access to an awesome regenerate spell, really solid units and cool monsters. A friend runs Ogres as his main army and he does extremely well. The new book (newish book?) is cool, they really got a boost in what they can pull off. Those darn leadbelchers UGH I hate them lol they shoot 1d6 shots each, so of course he runs them 3x2 for a minimum of 6 attacks but a maximum of 36! And they are T4 with 3 wounds each (no armour though so weak to shooting). The guys riding rhinos are cool, they get the tough skin thing like Cold Ones so get the +2 for mounted, they have light armour too so they are a tough unit to crack. I find Ogres are really small in models since they cost so much, but they also have a fairly low leadership army wide, so it is very easy to make them run. Even a shooting phase gone nice for your opponent and you see all your ogres running off the board. Their monsters are tough and strong, the cannon has killed so many of my units and monsters it's not even funny. S10 d6 multi-wound hits just eat through things like candy. Even the big mammoth thing is awesome, makes things always strike last, has a cool shooting attack. Ogres have the big monstrous, fun running units so if you like small model count armies that can do awesome damage, then they are definitely for you.

Skaven are definitely tier 1, I have a 16,000 point (before upgrades) army and I can say being able to field 1 rat for every 10 points (that's pretty much key with skaven is number, if you are running a 2500 list you better have at least 250 rats on the field) really makes a difference. The whole castle trick is still deadly, it's where you take a Grey Seer on a bell, run units of slaves all around with some clan rats (slaves at the front to take shooting since Skaven don't care if they flee), run your bell up close and cast the 13th spell with 6 dice and see your opponent crumble. It's very cheap so I only do it when I feel... Skaveny lol. Stormvermin list still does very well, same with a Skryre list. Running double abominations or doom-wheels or cannons, any of the big things can really dent your enemy. They are a fun army to play, but of course they can backfire and you will be yelling at them and locking them in a cage for a week with no love because everything you try and do fails... ugh that game sucked..... But yeah! They are a fun army, they are a horde army (much like orcs) so your going to be needing a lot of rats to do well.

Now as to my opinions on the edition itself: I enjoy it, it has definitely changed and I know some people don't like how some of the rules are but that's how its going to be in every edition. I find the magic phase can really make or break an army, as an example I had a High Elf player roll the fire spell (brain fart can't remember it now) on my Warriors of Chaos, it's a 19 to cast but man does it hurt! By the time I got to him my 30 man unit was down to 10, that's even with a 3+ save and a 3+ invul save from magic resist and Mark of Tzeentch. Then, having to roll a 19 to dispel it sucks even more since it's a remain in play spell. Other spells can really hinder or help a unit, putting Wildform on a unit of Saurus Warriors hurts, there isn't much non-elite infantry (and even some elite infantry) that can beat that, especially if you combo it with life magic and give them an additional +2 toughness and then regenerate any models that had died! Yes, though, all spells can be dispelled but with the random winds of magic and the possibility of unbalanced wizard levels (say my wizard is a level 4 but yours is a level 2, that means I am already +2 points over you for casting/dispelling) that the magic phase is just too random and can either be super awesome or really bad. Last night I played against one of my High Elf rolling buddies and his Loremaster rolled Irresistible force, then proceeded to roll a 3 on the miscast chart (the worst one IMO) which lays a large template down over the wizard and everything hit takes a s10 hit, so he destroyed 10 phoenix guard, 5 of my Skinks and some guys he had in a tower. But that wasn't even the worst part, the second part of the miscast states he must roll a d6, on a 1-3 the wizard is removed from play and on a 4-6 d6 dice are lost from the power pool.... so he then rolled a 2 and his wizard was sucked into the void and removed from the game, well, good bye his level 2 wizard.

Shooting is shooting, I don't think it has changed much.

Close combat is cool, strike at initiative order unless your stupid Elves with Always Strikes First, then in combination with their high initiative they get rerolls. I feel close combat is fairly balanced though, you'll find the tougher, stronger things are attacking after the weaker things.

Overall, in a nut shell I enjoy this edition of Fantasy and I can only think you will too!


EDIT:

Vampire counts, I know you said you were "meh" on other armies but hooooly poop are they awesome. That Terrorghiest is, in one word, I don't know, you'll need more than one word and they are all not kid friendly LOL. He has 6 wounds, can fly around and screams at your units (even in close combat). The scream does ((2d6 + his remaining wounds) - your leadership) in automatic wounds and no armour saves! That can really hurt a unit with low leadership (like skinks since they reduced them to LD 5). The vampire on the mortis engine combo is awesome deadly, the black coach running around is super cool and you can generate zombies out of thin air! The downfall though is lack of armour and the unstable rule, but still. Pure undeadly awesomeness. Not for everyone though, and your going to want boxes upon boxes of zombies and skeletons so might not be the cheapest of armies to run.

You can pre-measure anything at any-time now, charging is 2d6+movement so with pre-measuring you can almost always get a charge off unless your dice rolling hates you. It's also handy for setting spells and shooting off. I know A LOT of people got nerd raged when they introduced the pre-measuring but they did it for 2 reasons. 1) It makes games go faster, I remember waiting for an opponent for 10 minutes while he decided if his unit was in charging range by trying to eyeball the distance, and 2) the game boards GW sells, they are 24" by 24", so you can pretty much measure where a unit is and how far away another might be by knowing where you are on the 24" x 24" board, so why not allow pre-measure!
Last edited by 3eland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:38 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by 3eland » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Oops double post
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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by xcom » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:58 am

That was a bit more then I expected. heh

I didn't know that you could pre-measure now for charges. That makes things interesting. The 2D6+move does still make things interesting and still throws that uncontrollable aspect of not knowing if you are going to roll what you need to make it.

I just don't like "horde" armies. By that I mean armies that has tons of cheap useless troops that you throw at the enemy in hopes that they take a few of them out with them before the real troops hit them. I tried goblins once long ago and did not like them. Sure I can put down twice to 3 times as many troops. When 1 good hit with a spell or ranged of some sort and POOF, they're gone. That part I do not like. A 50 model blob gone just like that, but hey, I got plenty more of them where that came from.

Vampires are more of a personal thing. I'm so played out on vampires and undead themed things period. I just have no desire to play any army, in any game system, that is undead themed. The same pretty much applies to chaos. I played chaos for years when I still played 40k. Although I do admit running an all Khrone themed army appeals to me a little bit though. Hmm......

Tomb Kings
I forgot about the part where the army starts to fall apart if the leader and the priests are killed. Bleh, I don't like the sounds of that at all.

Ogres
I was at the local game store today, and read the OK army book a little bit. I didn't realize so many of them only could get light armor if any armor at all. So you hope that their slightly higher then average toughness and multi wounds helps keep them around. I was also hoping that the Tyrant leaders could be mounted on beasts, but only hunters and their generic riders can. Going to have to give them another got hard look to see if I want to go with them or not. They are near the top of my consideration list at the moment.

Bretonnia
I've had someone recommend some good and cheap "counts as" models to use to them. If only their army was so out of date, or else I would be all over this. I have very little faith in the rumor that they are getting an big update for 9th edition next year. 9th edition is coming next year, I do not doubt that at all, but everything about it suggests mid-late summer or early fall next year. So about a year away maybe?

Dwarfs
If it wasn't for the new stuff coming out in march, I would be all over this now.

I'm going to have to do some more looking at the army books. Hmmmm....

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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:51 pm

I couldn't in good conscience recommend that you get back in.

If you're dead set on doing it, then by all means, but go in with your eyes wide open.

This WHFB is one in which victory is often one magic roll away, for which there is no defense.
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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by 3eland » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:27 pm

s_o_r_r_o_w wrote:<SNIP>

This WHFB is one in which victory is often one magic roll away, for which there is no defense.
Very true to what s_o_r_r_o_w says. A single magic phase can change the tides ever so quickly. Like I said not everyone has liked the new changes in 8th, but there are some that do.

I'd recommend doing a pick up game at your local games store, maybe watch a game or watch youtube battle reports. That way you don't spend tons of cash and find out they are just going to collect dust.

Good luck in whatever you choose!
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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by imp522 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:03 pm

If you feel you will have fun playing it then go ahead, if you don't know then well whats the point of playing a game if your not going to have fun.

Do any of the local players have a spare army you could use to try out 8th? Might be a good way to see if you enjoy it before going out and trading/buying models for a game you might not like.
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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by eman1_2 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:55 pm

Rumor mill says 9th edition next year. No idea on how accurate that is though.
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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by xcom » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:56 am

eman1_2 wrote:Rumor mill says 9th edition next year. No idea on how accurate that is though.
Pretty sure that's pretty accurate. It's suppose to tie in with the 30th anniversary of the game which is next year. I managed to pick up a unopened Isle of Blood starter box on the cheap. ($50) I think I'm going to play around with what comes in that box for awhile before I make any huge purchases into the game. Like I said, I do want Dwarfs no matter what but their update is like 5 months away.

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Re: Looking to get back into warhammer fantasy, need feed ba

Post by Herz » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:07 am

Only input I can put is from the Brettonia angle from when I played a year or so ago.

I LOOOOVED them.

Had so many people tell me to stay away due to the old codex, but the Bretts went on undefeated for a while. Wish I could pull up some of the lists :<

Main army was a giant mass of Men at arms with loads of Knightly dudes on horsies.

I'll see if I can pull the list I used, actually had great luck with it against tournie lists and etc (I was moreso a tournie 40k player at the time, but Fantasy was def a good change of pace)

Men at arms would walk up to engage, then the rest of the army would flank and etc. Had alot of fun with em. (Also, most of my tournie experience was with 40k SM bikers. So that def helped the transition to fantasy cavalry)

The best I can say, is def give them a proxy and try. I went against all the naysayers, mainly after seeing "Kingdom of Heaven" and decided to give them a shot. Loved em to death til I moved on to Warmachine.

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