Thinking of starting in fantasy,need a bit of advice

[Gaijin18]

Hello fellow gamers

I have played 40k for years and years,have always looked at fantasy but never played it,but now there is a large fantasy group at the local store I go to and was thinking of starting an army.

What is the normal points for an average fantasy game.

And what thoughts,idea 's might you have on bretonnians?

I was thinking,depending on points

1 block of pegusus knights,two blocks of knights,,two large blocks of infantry backed up by two blocks of archers?

[Norseman]

Average is 2000-2500

Bretts are proabably the ONLY viable cavalry army out there. Unfortunately they only have 1 or 2 army builds.

You have to build your units deep like 5 ranks deep. You need to do this so your opponent is NOT stubborn. Bretts NEED to break units on the charge. If they get stuck in they loose. Only ones that can stick around in combat is Questing because of the great weapons, but they are limited to 12 knights. So they have to attack elite troops.

2 Knights and 1 Peg sounds good. Make sure you take a hero with the killing blow that kills monstrous sized bases.

Bret infantry sucks. Maybe have 2 units of archers. Make sure you have a Treb.

[Gaijin18]

Ok here is my go at 2000pts

Lord,,horse,barding,armour that makes you ws10,4base armour,plus shield=2+
BSB,,,shield,banner of defense,horse
Level 2 damsel,horse,barding,dispell scroll

2 units of 9 ktor
1 unit of 9 KE+banner that gives S 6
2 20 man MMA,full commands
2 20 man bowmen units,full commands

6 pegasus knights,banner

[Asif Chaudhry]

Hello fellow gamers

I have played 40k for years and years,have always looks at fantasy but never played,but now there is a large fantasy group at the local store I go to and was thinking of starting an army.

Hey Gaijin - welcome to fantasy battle! Its a pretty different beast from 40K but I think you'll enjoy it!

What is the normal points for an average fantasy game.

Depends what the mood of the players is - 2000pts is typical for a full night/several hours game. That said, people will play 1500 or even 1000 pt games if they have limited time, you just wont see as many uber characters and big monsters that way.

And what thoughts,idea 's might you have on bretonnians?

I was thinking,depending on points

1 block of pegusus knights,two blocks of knights,,two large blocks of infantry backed up by two blocks of archers?

I would say this - decide what it is you want to get out playing Fantasy. Is it to have a wonderfully painted and very characterful army that makes you happy, or are you all about the winning?

Because right now, the way 8th ed is set up, Brettonians and any other sort of predominantly cavalry force have a very tough row to hoe. But if having an army of knights makes you happy, then you should totally go for it!

I personally haven't played enough games of 8th ed, nor do I know the Brettonians very well except as playing against them, but here are the few things I've learned from trying to kill them:

1.) Grail Knights that are Unbreakable are your friend. They can save what would be a total rout disaster, just by virtue of not dying and not running away.

2.) Learn how to "focus for effect" - that is, don't try and match up 1 knight block on 1 enemy infantry block, all the way across the line. That's a recipe for disaster. Instead, try to use terrain so you can launch at least 2 knight units into one enemy unit, break it, and over run past any potential counter charges - it might seem counter intuitive, but you'll be safer deep in enemy lines, as many Fantasy players haven't really mastered the concept of "deployment in depth". Once through, you can turn around/reform, and charge into more enemy units, who suddenly have enemy knight blocks to the front AND rear - very scary.

3.) Don't be afraid to tool up your characters - the Brettonian army concept is centered around the heroic questing knight, so their army book tends to reward that a bit more than other army books. Nasty kill-y magic weapons, ward saves, special magic banners - feel free to go nuts with those once you have some solid knight blocks bought and paid for.

Sorry to be so wordy - hope that helps and hope you enjoy your foray into fantasy battle!

[reegsk]

Hey man, welcome to the square-basing club! I played Bretonnians for a number of years, so hopefully I can help you out a bit.

First things first, AC definitely hit the nail on the head with that comment about an all-cav force having a hard time of it. The biggest problem you're going to run into in eighth edition is the Steadfast rule. Combat now really revolves around having more ranks than your opponent. The upside for Bretonnians is that your cavalry have ranks that are three-wide, while all other cav and infantry units must be five-wide. But the reason that ranks are so important is that if you charge in and wipe the floor with your opponent, but he has more ranks than you do at the end of combat, his unit counts as "Steadfast" and uses its unmodified Leadership (or the General's, if he's nearby) for the Break Test. This is just like being Stubborn in 40k. Chances are, if they're Steadfast, they're not going to flee. This is bad for two reasons. One, your knights are only S3 after the first round of combat. And two, you're likely to get counter-charged in the flank, which is a very bad situation. The only way to get around this is to take units with more ranks, or to charge enough of your units into one of his that you kill a lot of models and don't leave him with ranks.

And one clarification -- Grail Knights aren't Unbreakable, they're Immune to Pyschology. With how expensive they are, you rarely see them in a larger unit, so you have to be very careful about what you charge them into.

Alright, to the list. I would highly recommend dropping the second unit of KotR, and using the points to increase the other Realm unit, as well as the Errant unit. This will give you the ability to take more wounds without losing too much effectiveness, more attacks on the charge and it will also increase your precious ranks. Now, the Men-at-Arms are good for only one reason -- they're cheap -- but with WS2 and S3, they don't hit or damage much. Their strength is in their numbers. If you want to have that much infantry, I would highly recommend combining them into one massive block, ten models wide. Maybe even add another ten dudes so you are ten wide, five deep. As to the archers, those can be very effective at harassing the enemy and taking out light infantry. Were you planning on having them rank up, or move around as Skirmishers? I would recommend the second, as it greatly increases their mobility. You can also hide them in the woods, where they will count as Stubborn and perhaps stick around after a round of combat to bog something down.

Lastly, the Pegasus Knights. While Peg Knights are very good, six of them might be a little too much. Against most units, the max you can get into base is four or five. Since they're Fliers, they can never get ranks and never take away enemy ranks. They do get a solid number of attacks, are T4, the pegasi are S4, and they get a Stomp attack at the end of combat, but they operate best in smaller units. If you really want to have six, I would suggest breaking them into two separate units, which means two targets for your enemy's shooting and magic, and it allows you to reinforce two parts of the battlefield.

So I would recommend larger blocks of rank and file knights as opposed to more blocks, condense your melee infantry into a large block, and either chop down on Peg Knights or split them into two blocks. Also, Questing Knights can be your best friend. They're S4 base, S6 with their Great Weapons. They might strike last, but they have a 3+ armor save to keep them save. I highly, HIGHLY recommend them.

[Gaijin18]

Thanks for the replies.

I thought you could only have 1 unit of pegasus knights?

I've only had three games so far,3 crushing victories(still learning the rules too,,,keep forgetting the magic phase,,,,40k has no magic,lol)

My thinking and list is sorta based on what I can/could afford but also

MMA cheap decoy,,bait units and generally annoy with

Plop the lord,paladin,damsel into a squad making it 12 strong
the second kotr to jump in

EK,or KE ,,havent used them yet,,,but like the immune bit,,,but will see bout that.Figure one good charge,,,then they are dead.

The archers are 10 wide,2 deep,,,and have killed more stuff,,,than my knights,,,the horses coming in second,LOL

[kturock]

Under last edition rules, chaos knights were the bomb. They could eat almost anything they ran into, but, they were pricey, points wise.

Bret knights 2 editions ago got eaten my my skaven plague cesnor bearers. The only thing that saved him was he put almost all of hispoints in his army general, put it on a flying mount and went around destroying the magic items that would harm him. After that he sat back and did nothing, since there was no way to damage the general, and over 50% of his points was in that 1 model.

[Gaijin18]

So after many games and coming in second in my local stores league with only one loss,, here is the 3000 pt list Ive come up with for a tourney here in a few weeks.


HQ
Lord,,,armour that gives ws 10,,,killing blow,,horse ect
BSB,basic stuff
level 2 damsel,horse
level 1 damsel
Green Knight
745 of 750 limit there

Core
3 KOTRx9+command
1 KEx9+command
2 20man strong MAA+command
2 20man strong archer unit+command

special
pegasus unitx6+banner

Rare
2 trebuchets
1 unitx6 grail knights+command


Ok so after finally getting my own copy of the mini rulebook and having a rethink as to the role I use magic for I changed it up a bit as I thought the lords and heros was one hq slot...not two different sections

so here goes
Lords
Lord,ws10 armour,killing blow,,,magic lance
green knight
Heros
BSb
2 x damsels lvl 2 on horse
1 damsel lvl 2 on foot
Going to use these to augment my knight units or gain wounds back ect
and the chance for 3 more dispel dice

Core
3 KOTR units x9 plus command
1 KE unit x9 plus command
2 MAA x20 plus command
2 bowmen units x20 plus command
Rare
Pegasus knights x5 plus banner
Special
1 Treb
1unit of grail knightsx 6 plus banner

Total
2994 of 3000

Thoughts?

[J.MorganKuberry]

I always enjoyed fielding several small units of 6 knights in 6th/7th edition. These were able to maneuver around pretty easily, and I could coordinate my attacks so that I could simultaneously hit from two or even 3 different sides, negating rank bonuses. Not sure how well it'll work under current rules as I haven't been playing much since the latest core rules came out.

The bret infantry is... interesting, to be polite. Under 5th edition they had underpriced, decent archers and overpriced average men at arms. Post 5th, I only used my infantry models because I like the way they look. I don't think any of my commoners have survived a battle since 6th edition came out!

[kturock]

the game also varies by size. If you play warbands size, 1000 or less is alot different than 1500, 2000 or 3000.

[Gaijin18]

OK so after thinking over the pounding I got a few months ago at a tourney and reading the rules again,and figuring out that you can use the stuff in the back of the main rule book,,,and rereading the codex ,,,heres a revised 2000pt list

Lords

Lord,,horse,armour that gives ws 10,4+ base save,sword that gives I 10,balm that gives the rebirth,(get wounds back),vow that gives heroic killing blow

Heros
BSB,,,razor banner=armour piecing to unit he joins ,horse,lance,shield
LVL 2 damsel on horse
LVL 2 damsel on horse

Core
KEx9 ,plus command,plus banner that makes them S 6
KOTRx9,command,magic banner that adds 1 to LD
KOTRx9 command

30 MMA,plus full command(horde)
18 Longbowmen plus comannd
18 long bowmen plus command

Rare
3 pegusas knights,plus banner

Special
Trebuchet