2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Modeling, Painting, Converting, Terrain, etc

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What points scheme do you prefer?

Poll ended at Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 pm

Keep the old way. Just go by base/model size.
3
43%
Points per piece (1 point per piece of model, specifics to be determined).
4
57%
Model size (measure the height or length of the model - specifics to be determined).
0
No votes
Some other scheme. please, follow up with a descriptive post.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 7

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MagickalMemories ( 784 )
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2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Okay. This is the voting thread for the 2018 Assembly Challenge.
What points scheme do you prefer to use to determine points?

This vote allows you to change your vote so, if you change your mind, you can re-vote!

ONLY SEVEN DAYS TO VOTE!

Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:52 pm

All pieces count. If you have to cut it, trim it, glue; it's part of the model. Even extra bits you scratch build. Make that, especially extra bits you have to scratch build. Bases too. They get gut trimmed and glued.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:12 pm

Honestly, I'm not willing to "argue" the point (not that we're arguing), because it's not that important to me.
But, to explain my logic...
If you get one point per piece, which includes the base, then do we get points for opening mono-pose Bones miniatures that require no gluing?
If we could the base as one piece, and someone cleans a base, do they get a point?

That's the theory behind my idea... you get points starting with the SECOND piece of the model.
Glue a monopose Bones model to a base? That's a point. You glued it.

Getting a single point per piece involved? Dude, that works for me. I've been BUSY making some mutants this year. Making cultists from WHFB models, too. I've been converting WHFB arms to work on metal GSC hybrids.
There are tons of points to be had with mutants! LOL

If we end up at a "points per piece," and the prevailing sentiment is to include bases, I'm definitely NOT going to freak out. I just wanted to share my perspective.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:02 pm

I hope I wasn't coming across as arguing. It was an attempt at humor.

Bases, ammo pouches, spare weapons are all pieces. They all need to be cut, trimmed and glued. If points are going to be given for conversions, then adding the normal, regular parts should.
What would the cut off be for excluding parts? Nothing that attaches to a belt? No accessories? When things start to get excluded, it becomes subjective. Then we'd have to have discussions on almost everything built. Extra models added to a base? Some models already come with that. Are they added to be excluded, but not the parts that come with the model?
Then conversions would be excluded. Those are extra parts added. Parts that aren't included with the kit.

Like I posted before. Bases are necessary for some models, to hold them upright; or in a static position. Like making bikers look they're leaning down or holding Necron Arks up.

Now, If I were to add a wooden base, as a diorama, then that would be an uncounted part. Like GW's armies on parade. They must be put in a display setting. Grass, trees, and texture items would be excluded. Now, maybe not for the painting contest.

Some monopose models come with the base already attached. That's zero points. All of the models I built for the SoB boardgame are simple. Most only have under 3 pieces plus the base. Some are monopose. A couple just have an arm or head to attach. They still get cut off a sprue. Still get trimmed and glued together.

I'm finishing up an Ork Trukk. I'ts about Rhino size, so 5 points conventional. Pieces, used or built but left as various weapon choices, bring it's piece count to 83 under the new option.
One trukk took longer than 10 boyz. Under the current method, it's 5 points vs their 10. Under the points system, the boyz are 74 and the trukk is 83.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 pm

kturock wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:02 pm
I hope I wasn't coming across as arguing. It was an attempt at humor.
Never.

I just wanted to stress my "not being @nal about this" p.o.v. I have a habit of being straightforward, which often "reads" as confrontational.
You know me well enough that I didn't think you'd take it that way. Others might not, though. So, it was more for their benefit.

You make excellent points on the "every bit counts" point. Still not sold on bases, but I think you swayed me to counting each actual model piece.
That said, there are only 4 votes in favor of PPP (points per piece), with 6+ days left, and voters are allowed to change. So, I think that's a bridge we can cross if we get there. : )

That said, we should probably still keep track of how many pieces we're using. LOL

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:22 pm

We need to discuss points for 15mm or 6mm models. I recall the old epic models being truly a pia to assemble. 5 tiny bits on 1 small base. 5 points...?

Edit. They are just cut, trim and glue monopose models, but man. 1 bad snip and you cut the arm off. Or worse, cut it in half.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:40 pm

2 things. 1.. is this post pinned?

2 here's some pix of bases.

Top model should have base counted. It's integral to the model and has several pieces.
Bottom model. No for the base but yes for Luke & R2.

BTW not my pics. I saw them on FB.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by jason1977 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:22 am

2cents.gif

I do not like the concept of a 'points per piece' scoring system. A standard pre-2017 Marine has, counting the base-no weapons, 10 parts. Base, legs, torso front, torso rear, left arm, right arm, left shoulder pad, right shoulder pad, backpack and head. Now add weapons. Assault Marines? That's 2 for the jump pack not counting weapons but no backpack so they start at 11. Now throw on the flashy stuff and their normal weapon. Now what about orks? Standard boy, counting base- 4 parts. Base, legs, torso and head. Already 6 points behind with no weapons or the little flashy stuff they could have. Orks lose when counting parts. Take the same boy and Marine and count them as an Infantry model-tie game.

Giving all the same category of model the same score regardless of parts levels the playing field. Yes I know there is no trophy at the end of the year. Just bragging rights.

I vote for base size scoring system.

Jason
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:24 am

You don't put arms on your Boyz?
LOL
Ork Boy (including base):
Base, Legs, Torso, Head, Arm, Arm, Gun
That's seven pieces. Plus, they're a bit easier to assemble than a standard SM, who has 2 shoulder pads and a 2-piece torso (all mandatory).
The PPP method accounts for each piece that is put on a model. To indirectly quote kturock, you still have to clip each piece from sprue and clean the flash/mold lines off of it.
Also, if you add "gubbins," the model increases in points.

I count 11 on a standard SM (with base):
Base, Legs, Torso Front, Torso Back, Backpack, Head, Arm, Shoulder Pad, Arm, Shoulder Pad, Gun.

A typical Assault Marine has his weapon and Bold Pistol modeled into the arms. So, there are no extra points for weapons. On the other hand, if you do a weapon swap... that takes even more time than just gluing on a weapon (for me, at least). So, without conversion, I see 12 for the Assault Marine (because of the 2 piece jump pack).
The benefit to the PPP method is that you get more credit for more complex models, and less for less complex models.

Look at it like this... Say you're assembling Ork Boyz -the lesser pointed of the models above. It's taking you tons of time to clip, clean, pose and glue those things together. It takes you hours to finish a boxed set (12 models).
You get 12 points for those.
Meanwhile, I glue a dozen of these to 25mm bases for the same amount of points:

Image

See what I mean?

(For the record, I actually DO have 10 of those that I glued to bases, so my daughter could paint them... I just need to photograph them and post them.)

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:28 am

@kturock.
If we do PPP, I think it should just be PPP, despite the size of the model.
Otherwise, we risk someone saying (to hijack your own example), "But this Necromunda Cigar is even smaller than those 15mm pieces. I should get more points for it." That would just convolute things.

I didn't bother to pin the thread. Didn't see the need. It has an expected 1-week life span.
As long as people are posting in it, it will stay near the top.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:51 am

My point about the cigar is, it's so small, but it's a required piece, not an extra. Pouches and such are extra, and easier to attach than the cigar.
The bags should get points, because the cigar would.
I wasn't saying it should get more points because it was small. [if that's what you thought I said]

So to use my old Epic scale base as an example, 5 models attached to it's base is 6 points?
Same for stuff like Napoleonics and ACW and Bolt Action? They usually have 5-10 plus minis to a base. 1 per model?
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Nah. Wasn't implying that you were asking for extra points for it.
I was using it as a general example that, if someone wanted more points because they were assembling tiny, hard to control pieces on a 25mm model, someone else might want to tweak points on tiny pieces for larger models, which would cause havoc all over again.

Using your Epic example, IMO is 5 points. It would be 6 is it was decided that you get points for the base. Same for ACW and Bolt Action. Five models on a base = 5 or 6 points, depending on whether or not you count the base.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:13 pm

I just thought of a couple thoughts on vehicles. Small, medium and large.
A Land Raider is a large vehicle, 8 points.
A Leman Russ is medium, 6 points.
What size is a Rhino? Small at 5 points.

So, what size is a Ork Trukk? It's a bit bigger than a Rhino, about the same size as a Russ? I don't have a Russ, but do have Rhinos and LRs.

A trukk has 2 Boyz.. so would the points include the boyz? You'd think so. But 1 of the builds uses a wrecking ball in place of 1 boy. They can be swapped out. So it should be extra if both boy and ball are built.

Simple, right.?

Now follow along for this.
I built a couple Nercon Arks a few years ago. The transport version, has 10 passengers and 1 crew. So 11 bodies built and attached to the base vehicle. Even if that's listed as a large vehicle, like a LR, it's less points than the 11 Necrons in it. 8 vs 11.

How should points be scored for them under the current system?
Under the PPP it'd would be more fair, more even and consistent. No?
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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MagickalMemories ( 784 )
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:37 am

Sorry.
Been a bit out of sorts lately.



After a MASSIVE amount of voting, and a lot of lobbying and campaigning on each side (not really), it looks like the "point per piece" crew wins it!

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

User avatar
kturock ( 566 )
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Re: 2018 ASSEMBLY CHALLENEGE POLL

Post by kturock » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:26 am

Since only a few people voted, I haven't changed the points system.
Are there that few people who are going to enter the challenge or do they just not care ?
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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