Golden Demon Gamesday opinion poll

[bhouze]

As I'm sure GW isn't going to reply to my query I post it to you the viewer.
Is it really fair to compete in the GD against profession painters (i.e. you charge for your work, have a website,etc. This makes you a professional)
I think it would be fair to have pros compete in the open category. But pitting a hobbyist against a pro painter seems crazy to me. I don't know of too many pros in the youngblood category, or do you just hire someone and enter their work as your own...

I can win best painted at a RTT, but there is no way I can compete against pro painters at Gamesday.

B Houze (colour blind but still managed to get a best painted army for my grey knights)

[Ironhide]

or do you just hire someone and enter their work as your own...

Can't do that. If they find out, you are automatically disqualified. It must be your own work.

[bhouze]

Yeah yeah, IF they catch you. Like they will know here in Canada what I got painted 2 years ago in California by painter 6479 (the guy did some really nice work).
Not that I would do that. Gamesday for me is all about getting my Runtherder free admission and shopping at the Forge World booth.
Last year I was there less than thirty minutes. Barely worth the 2 hour drive each way.
NOTE: Never, I mean NEVER take your wife with you to gamesday. I loved hearing "This looks like you might have alot of fun if we didn't have to get going." So much for the 40K version of Aerinautica Imperialis....
I much prefer RTTs as you get to play and tweak your own armies, and they are closer to home.

[Ironhide]

Who's to say painter6479 wouldn't rat you out if he saw his work on the GW website or in WD mag? I believe they banned a guy from all Golden Daemon competitions forever for doing what you have suggested.

[govannon]

As I'm sure GW isn't going to reply to my query I post it to you the viewer.
Is it really fair to compete in the GD against profession painters (i.e. you charge for your work, have a website,etc. This makes you a professional)
I think it would be fair to have pros compete in the open category. But pitting a hobbyist against a pro painter seems crazy to me. I don't know of too many pros in the youngblood category, or do you just hire someone and enter their work as your own...

I can win best painted at a RTT, but there is no way I can compete against pro painters at Gamesday.

B Houze (colour blind but still managed to get a best painted army for my grey knights)

What happens if somebody just painted a few miniatures for people at the local game store? What if they just painted for trade?
What if you sold your painted army on here or ebay, should that stop you from entering?
I think it would be too big a hassle trying to limit who could compete.

[bhouze]

Yeah all in all it gets sticky.
None the less my main question is about having to compete as a hobbyist against those who are pros.
I remember when pricing out quotes for my Void Dragon that I had a reply from a painter in the U.K. with no less than 6 GDs sitting on his shelf on his site pics. I guess that made him feel vindicated to charge 300-500 pounds for the job.
Still you have to wonder why pros don't have their own category.
I would personally love to enter Steves' work and send him the trophy in the end. If they would only let me enter it in his name.

[MagickalMemories]

When he says "pro painters," I don't think he literally means people who have sold painted minis.
I think he's referring to people like Brandon @ GMM Studios, for example. The man's a PROFESSIONAL. It's his job. It's what he does to make a living.

My opinion is that it shouldn't make a difference.

Professional or not, it doesn't give him (generic... not specifically referring to GMM anymore) an advantage. It doesn't make him better than a hobbyist. It just means he's probably painted more minis. That's all.

I think that many of the professionals (and, for this, I'm including those who do it as a primary job AND those who do it as a secondary job or in their spare time) will tell you that there are a crapload of hobbyist painters who are simply better than them. "Professional" doesn't make you a better painter. Heck, it doesn't even make you more experienced.

There are at least a half dozen "professionals" who I'd be MORE THAN happy with my chances against in a Golden Demon competition, including Painter6479 (not that he's really a pro anymore. I was just tying back into the OP).

It's those damned French that worry me. If those S.O.B.'s start flying over here to enter the US GD's, it's over for all of us.

Eric

[govannon]

When he says "pro painters," I don't think he literally means people who have sold painted minis.
I think he's referring to people like Brandon @ GMM Studios, for example. The man's a PROFESSIONAL. It's his job. It's what he does to make a living.

My opinion is that it shouldn't make a difference.

Professional or not, it doesn't give him (generic... not specifically referring to GMM anymore) an advantage. It doesn't make him better than a hobbyist. It just means he's probably painted more minis. That's all.

I think that many of the professionals (and, for this, I'm including those who do it as a primary job AND those who do it as a secondary job or in their spare time) will tell you that there are a crapload of hobbyist painters who are simply better than them. "Professional" doesn't make you a better painter. Heck, it doesn't even make you more experienced.

There are at least a half dozen "professionals" who I'd be MORE THAN happy with my chances against in a Golden Demon competition, including Painter6479 (not that he's really a pro anymore. I was just tying back into the OP).

It's those damned French that worry me. If those S.O.B.'s start flying over here to enter the US GD's, it's over for all of us.

Eric

I was not saying that selling some painted miniatures make you a professional. I am just saying that it would be difficult to try and regulate that kind of thing.
I am sure it is tough enough trying to pick the winners, I would hate to try and go through all the entrants and try to decide who would be classified as a professional.

George

[bhouze]

I have a brother in law that wrestles on the side. He ain't no Sting heck he isn't even up to the lowest heel on TV but, as soon as he's getting paid he is considered a professional.
If they're going to all the trouble to check to make sure you did the work yourself, what's checking your status.
Hey, don't worry about the french as the american tourist says in Killing Zoe "If it wasn't for us you'de all be speaking german." Right before he gets whacked...

[mrrshann618]

I know that in the past olympic events could not be entered by "professionals".
Basically anyone who gets paid to do whatever

I fully agree that there should be two different categories as professionals get paid based on their ability to paint. That generally means the better the artwork the more it is going cost. This naturally lends to the fact that the professionals are going to be better painters "on average"

Exactly as bhouze said, if they are going to check to see if you actually did it, it isn't even a half a step to find out if you do that for a living.

[GMMStudios]

Professionals don't tend to enter GDs because it isn't really worth the time or effort. I know Shawn at BTP hasn't. I don't think any other advertisers here have, and to tell you the truth I think everyone who could be considered professional advertise on this site.

I define professional as you pay taxes on it/it is your main source of out of college income.

[gamefusion]

As a professional painter, I don't think there's a problem with everyone competing in one bracket, so to speak.

Doing something for a living is more about having the desire to stick it out and make it work for you, IMHO, rather than being about pure talent or skill. I think there are plenty of people out there who are "amateurs" (using that word only to delineate between the guy who gets paid for it and the guy who doesn't, not to put anyone down) who have lots of us pros beat in terms of painting skill. They just don't choose to try and make a living at doing it, whereas some of us do.

I think it's a pretty even playing field. We all become better painters with practice, and everyone can practice as much as they have the patience & time for. I actually think amateurs sometimes have an edge. They can spend 6 months laboring over a single figure, not having to worry about painting deadlines, meeting clients' goals, or trying to match color-schemes to the rest of an army. I really can't afford to do that.

Just my two cents.
-Ulf

[bluemeenie]

Who is professional?


I know that Joseph Orteza is an amazing painter/sculpter, and is such because he has all the time in the world to do this. (I guess his wife works full time).


If I remember right he doesn't really play at all....just sculpts and paints and is an art teacher.


He won all kinds of GD's over the years and for awhile was almost guarenteed one.



I do also feel that over the years I have seen judges score people like Orteza lower in competitions after they have won them for so long.


Heck He was winning them so much that I didn't think anyone would beat him....until one year it seemed like the judges tastes changed and he only got like a bronze.

His style didn't change, but the overall style did change from a highly sculpted modeled figure to a figure that had almost nothing changed but was just painted "as is"

[kturock]

I know that in the past olympic events could not be entered by "professionals".
Basically anyone who gets paid to do whatever

I fully agree that there should be two different categories as professionals get paid based on their ability to paint. That generally means the better the artwork the more it is going cost. This naturally lends to the fact that the professionals are going to be better painters "on average"

Exactly as bhouze said, if they are going to check to see if you actually did it, it isn't even a half a step to find out if you do that for a living.

That brings up a question; How does the US, and probably other countries, have pro-basketball players play. The US "Dream Team" is/was all pros, NBA players.

[Ironhide]

Rule change in 1989.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/08/sport ... ayers.html