Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinions

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pretre ( 1340 )
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by pretre »

If I didn't have kids, I'd probably buy retail. :)
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Bahamut_Dragonlord ( 344 )
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by Bahamut_Dragonlord »

MagickalMemories wrote:@ Bahamut
Do you game at your LGS regularly? If not, the following question won't hold as much weight but, if you do, i'm VERY curious about your answer.
For that matter, it's a good question for anyone who games at thier LGS and buys online, due to discounts.

If your LGS offered 15% off of GW (anything that wasn't "direct only") and 20% off of all other games, would that make your more prone to spending your money there?
Basically, I'm trying to see if a lesser discount is worth it to you to (a) have it faster and (b) support your LGS.

Thanks.

Eric
I would absolutely direct at least most of my funds to my LGS for 20% off. I don't expect them to match the 30%, more just 'be aware' of the pricing market and offer at least a token amount. I would even be ok with something more like 10% off up front (to help offset the tax burden) and a loyalty punch card or point system equating to another 5-10% off some future purchase. Most people argue the "brick and mortar stores cost more to run, so can't offer discounts like the internet," but both of the stores that I order from in my internet purchases also run a gaming store and seem to be able to sell at 25-30% off just fine (granted much of that is popularity and volume related).

All that said, when I get a good chunk of change to spend in one go, I am going to look for the most efficient way to spend it and will wrack up all the discounts I can find, as that 5-10% more becomes a harder number to stomach.
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by pixelgeek »

Bahamut_Dragonlord wrote:Really though, as MM said, Magic is the money maker. The only way to really make steady income on minis is to push faction ADD. My biggest challenge in buying from my LGS is the easy availability of 30% off retail (for Warmachine) online. Even though I want to support my LGS, having to pay full retail plus tax means a 37% shift in pricing which ends up just being too much to give up.
This is why so many stores focus on MTG, other CCGs and board games as revenue items.

Both GW and PP have two major issues against them for a store owner

1) The games are expensive and a lot of gamers buy online to get discounts that most B&M stores can't match
2) The games have a huge range of figures and keeping a full range in stock is a sizeable investment

1 & 2 combine to make these games a lot less financially attractive than they might have been some years ago.
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by wboyden »

Retail space is not cheap and there is other cost factors that go into running that retail space, I know getting those online discounts are nice but buyers also need to look at the store also provides a place to play and those tables take up a good amount of space.

If stores are going to look at MTG or other card games to provide their profits just so they can offer a discount on minis, they could also look at just removing the minis and for every two 4x6 table that only supports 4-8 players replace them with 3 other tables that would support 18 card players

I dont know how many of you also play any of the card games, but none are cheap or inexpensive to get going and stay competitive
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by MagickalMemories »

You're right, of course, that this could be done.
The problem with that is that you end up at a point where you're no longer a store for gamers. Rather, you're a store for CARD gamers which also happens to sell other games. I can tell you from first hand experience that stores who cater to ANY type of gamer over others eventually loses the business of the neglected gamers. If you want to stock mini games and actually sell them in-store, you can't allow the environment to become on where M:tG is being played on almost every tabe and mini gamers who want to come in for a pick up game (on non-CCG league [or whatever] nights) get a hard time and/or dirty looks from the CCG gamers.
I've seen it happen, and it isn't pretty.

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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by Bahamut_Dragonlord »

MagickalMemories wrote:You're right, of course, that this could be done.
The problem with that is that you end up at a point where you're no longer a store for gamers. Rather, you're a store for CARD gamers which also happens to sell other games. I can tell you from first hand experience that stores who cater to ANY type of gamer over others eventually loses the business of the neglected gamers. If you want to stock mini games and actually sell them in-store, you can't allow the environment to become on where M:tG is being played on almost every tabe and mini gamers who want to come in for a pick up game (on non-CCG league [or whatever] nights) get a hard time and/or dirty looks from the CCG gamers.
I've seen it happen, and it isn't pretty.

Eric
I used to be one of those Magic guys at one of those Magic stores... We were a terrible bunch! I understand what wboyden says, but as I previously stated, the online retailers I buy from DO have retail space and gaming space, so they face the same/similar costs. Sure they are not turning the lights on for me or providing me a table, but they are for ohters. With all of that, they still manage to sell for 30% off and provide free shipping for a $50+ order. I also see that a new store, or one that caters exclusively in the retail space will not have any where near the volume that DGI has, so of course they can't sell at the same price. I just want my store owner to recognize the "real" price point of sales is not MSRP and offer me a token to make my decision easier to put my money into the store rather than spend it on the internet. Sure he will take a 10-ish % cut on his margin for what he sells, but he doesn't make anything on the stuff I buy from someone else.

Great discussion, I hope 3eland is getting the answers he is looking for from us (and realizes we Bartertowners are somewhat of a special cross-section of the gaming population).
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by 3eland »

Bahamut_Dragonlord wrote:
Great discussion, I hope 3eland is getting the answers he is looking for from us (and realizes we Bartertowners are somewhat of a special cross-section of the gaming population).
Indeed! I may not be replying as much here but I am reading for sure. The discussion is very helpful to me (and will most likely be helpful for those like me with the same idea). I thank you all again for your contribution!
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by Rayjbaker »

ive been thinking about doing this ion my town alot lately. while a well established lgs is only 30-40 minutes away a few gamers here in town are stay at home dads and we don't get out much. just some ideas ive been throwing around are having an area where a babysitter will watch someones kids while they are in the store. i know if my store offered that i would be there at least monthly instead of almost never. the town 30 minutes away actually has two stores, one that does alot of 4ok and warmahordes but also does bi-weekly mtg, lfr, and pathfinder.
the other store is newer and only does card games like magic, Pokemon, and yugioh. the major issue with me opening a store where i live is the amount of traffic i would get. there is a main street where most of the business in town happens with a high school close which i think would be the biggest part of my business but im having trouble determining if it would be enough to sustain the store.
other than foot traffic the main issue would be sales. ive gone into my lgs and spent 100$ or more at a time on something which some people do but i think i would keep a much lower stock of board and miniatures games than the store i go to. instead i would order stuff online at a discount for any customers who wanted something. selling instead things like cards games, miniature starter armies, and hobby supplies.
hope some of this helps you and maybe get me some more pointers.
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by MagickalMemories »

Ray, if you ever move forward, carefully consider and investigate the babysitting thing.
Not only could it be expensive an HECK, but you're setting yourself up for legal troubles if something goes wrong with the babysitter. Especially if, God forbid, he/she does something... untoward... with a child.

Eric
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by 3eland »

MagickalMemories wrote:Ray, if you ever move forward, carefully consider and investigate the babysitting thing.
Not only could it be expensive an HECK, but you're setting yourself up for legal troubles if something goes wrong with the babysitter. Especially if, God forbid, he/she does something... untoward... with a child.

Eric
To add to that, in order to have a "babysitting" part you need to comply to health and safety standards (which includes sanctioning off part of your store) that a daycare needs to comply with (which is a lot different than a regular store), your insurance may be extremely high and they would need to be first aid and CPR certified. I knew someone (friend of a friend sort of thing) who opened a daycare and it was a hassle due to all the requirements needed. People get really picky when it comes to children. Then again, having two of my own I am really (and I mean really) picky with our own babysitters lol.
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by Rayjbaker »

ive got the daycare/babysitting side down since im trained in that area as is my sister. also it would be either just a "kids" section of the store with licensed supervision or full kids room daycare type thing. i havent looked into the need for a daycare in my area yet to see if there is any of that business available.
I go by standard rules unless we work something out in advance.
I will hold items with offers pending for one day before looking into other offers.
I will ship overseas and to Canada but will not ship first in those trades.
I respond to messages within one day of receiving them please do the same.
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by Rayjbaker »

the watching children is really just an idea ive had to get and keep more customers. i havent seen a game store do this yet i know alot of gaming parents that never get to go and play games since they are stay at homes.
I go by standard rules unless we work something out in advance.
I will hold items with offers pending for one day before looking into other offers.
I will ship overseas and to Canada but will not ship first in those trades.
I respond to messages within one day of receiving them please do the same.
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by optimusprime14 »

There have been alot of great points here that I don't need to repeat. Kturock hit most of the specific issues related to a games sotre.

Cavet: I ran my own business for 5 years, left it, went to work for someone else and am now self employed. I have a Bachelor of Commerce, and a PMP. However I make no assumptions than I am an expert, so anything I say is personal opinion and what I have learned.

Regardless of what your business is there are a few fundemental things you need to know:

Know where your money is. At all times you should be able to tell me how much money you have in the bank, how much you need to pay in the next week, month and 3 months, what a reasonable forcast for your income is in the next week, month and 3 months. How much you currently owe and interest rates on any debt, what your standing is in regards to credit with your suppliers. If you can't do this then you'll need to hire someone who can. The best salesmen/manager/good guy in the world will have their business sink if they don't know where every dollar and cent is and what it is doing.

You need to know exactly how much you will make off of each purchase both gross and net profit (you need to understand what these concepts are). You neeed to know your break even point. How much do you need to sell each month to just keep the lights on? How much do you want to pay yourself?

Be prepare that this will consume you. I was talking with a friend who runs a game store this past weekend. He was telling me that he just doesn't feel like playing anymore. He's burnt out of the game. Running this, it will stop being fun, it will become a job. Yes after a while (5, 10 years) it may get to a point where some things become routine and you might have some time to take it up as a hobby, but will you want to?

You will be working a lot. Close to 60-70 hours a week, 7 days a week if not more. If you do the calculation, you will be making less than minimun wage. Don't go into this because you think you will make lots of money. You might, but not initially. The first year will be hell. Absolute hell. You will be trying to figure everything out, along with keeping your head above water. Even when you are not at work you will be working. You will be at home looking at the books, planning orders, etc. Even when you aren't doing that, you'll be thinking about it. As a business owner there is always something more you could be doing. There's always something that will be on your mind. You will need to figure out how to handle this, how to turn it off, because if you don't it will bleed into your personal life.

Your spouse and kids need to be 100% aware and clear of what is happening. You will need that personal support. If this was easy, everyone would do it. It's not easy and it's not for everyone.

If you are going to hire friends/family, you need to set very clear expectations and boundries from the time you even mention the idea. I have hired both friends and family and I have lost friends because of it. I hired my sister to work for me and in addition to the formal work contract, we had a informal, but written, personal contract. It was only because of who we were that we were able to work together. In regards to a business partner, this has to be someone with whom you have the same level of trust that you would in a spouse. Can you trust this person, not just personally, but professionally, that they will keep food in your child's mouth?

Get every thing in writting. Save all your emails. Make sure you have a clear filing system. Never send work emails from you personal account. Keep that line seperate. If anything should happen to you, you need to make it so that anyone can come in and get to know where everything is.

I've been there, if you want to talk further send me a pm. Since we're both in Ontario I'd also be happy to talk on the phone. It's always helpful to sound things out with someone else.

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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by bluemeenie »

open up a store next to a Kiddie Care center and then work out a deal with them.... Something like a flat 4 hour rate for child care drop-off while dad/mom play a game.

but then again that rate could be as much of a turn-off as renting a table. If both parents game, not so much...but if you are like me and only I game, trying to convience my wife to allow me to Drop 20 dollars on a babysitter for 4 hours while I play a table top game is not going to fly.

That's why she left the kid with me in the first place :D
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Re: Wanting to open a store, have questions and need opinion

Post by bhouze »

Well as I was looking for threads I could add value to this one could use a few hints.
For a time I ran a gaming club in Simcoe, Ontario.
At first we paired with a local store as they were the only ones selling 40K.
I found that the IOOF hall (Oddfellows) was the cheapest hall to rent in the area. It was $100 for the day(Sun) and $50 for any additional day in the month. After a while I had a pretty strong base of 20+ gamers. I would charge enough to cover the rental and I also had a membership fee that was a pay X up front for the year and get Y off admission and free entry to tourneys.
It wasn't too long and I was making money, Bring a friend for free day was a hit, etc. Although I did have one mom who would drop off her ADHD child un-medicated a few times.
I would have painting in a corner, fantasy in one spot 40K in another. I even freed up space for other games (tabletop) like Necromunda, etc.

If you have a vendor licence you could always run an order this month, pick up next month service and run out of the hall on game days (pay your sales tax to the gov't if you plan on renewing your drivers licence, they want their cut). It sure is better than a long term lease. No use giving up your day job until the business is well off the ground customer base established.
Look around for halls in your area. The Oddfellows aren't getting the younger membership they used to and probably the Masons as well (upper deck youth drop in center). Having/knowing a few members will make it easier for the group to give you a chance to show you are a responsible party that cleans up after your events and doesn't damage the property. People want kids to have an opportunity to do things in the area that don't lead to trouble. (try to avoid discussing daemon armies as some groups have religious undertones)
Make sure to ask for a closet or locker for some storage. No one wants to lug terrain around twice a month.
I ran my club as transparent as possible and had balance sheets available for anyone to see (I would have one at the sign in table). I used excess money for tourney prize support, terrain, free admission days. I would also suggest a flea market day as it will curb selling/swapping at every game day especially if you are trying to run a business. People still will want to sell/trade just provide a forum for them.
I was also a good way to hone casual players into gamers and form a core group of players to go (car pool) to area tourneys.
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