divine shadow wrote:One thing that I really like about WM/H is that you can pretty much end the game whenever you feel like it. Just make a 'mistake' and get your caster killed. Winning or losing a minis game isn't so important to my pride that I will continue to play a game that is absolutely no fun when there is an easy way out.
How many times have you been on the receiving end of an Imperial Guard gun line and wondering why the guy keeps shooting all his 12+ tanks and 20+ units on turn 6 when he's already won 3 turns ago? Wouldn't it be nice if there was an easy 'game over' button so you don't have to sit around putting away your models for an hour?
I'm not going to comment on throwing games, but I do appreciate how in WM there is (often) the ability to pull out a win, comes with games that aren't based on attrition.
Changing out a $10 model (Warcaster) WILL change your whole force.
Can anyone name another game where $10 will effectively buy a new army?
I used to claim this, but there are several problems that I've come to realize:
1: while you can radically alter your army by changing casters, it doesn't mean you'll make even a decent army. (expanded on in 3)
2: people (myself previously included) seem to remember every price hike GW has ever made while ignoring the typically increasing prices of PP minis. While they have done a nice job keeping most minis in the ballpark of the same price, their minis have been steadily increasing in price: while casters were originally in the $5-10 range with a few outliers, now they're much more in the $15-25 range because they are more elaborate and PP realized they can charge more for them
3: when you change your caster, in many situations, you're also changing at least 1 unit ($50-100/10-20% of army) and jack/beast ($25-50/10-20$ of army), and often a solo ($10-25, up to 10% of army), meaning that, until you have a large collection (and even then, sometimes), you're spending $100+ to change your army and keep the change effective. You can argue that some casters can play with identical lists, but this ultimately will mean either one or both lists are less effective with the caster, or your casters are similar enough in play style that you're talking about a change in iteration, not army.
Can anyone name another game where $10 will effectively buy a new army?
Many skirmish/low model count games? DLC? Some board game expansions (yes, there are military board games)?
The best thing about WM/H is that the rules make sense.
Mostly, until people start breaking the game (for instance, if you're not looking at a shield guarding model, but are looking at the model it guards out of the corner of your eye, you can target the defender without the bodyguard stepping in. Or the fact that good scouts (read: hunter) shoot through walls (ignore trenches, walls, etc.).
You don't have to wait to be wounded to see if your armor will 'save' you. It's all incorporated in one step. Did you get hit hard enough to crush your armor? How bad did it hurt you? Makes sense to me.
Saving comes from D&D, where saving represents dodging as much as it represents armor, and was what you do to reduce damage. I assume it was for a couple streamlining reasons, and mostly so the defender feels like they can stop something, while the attacker isn't stopped mid attack. While I agree that the order doesn't make any sense, the rule actually allows for some more nuance in expression of weapons and toughness (there's a difference between someone who's well armored and someone who is hard as nails). I think both systems have merits, but it's hardly like PP invented not having a save.
I
'm in combat with something that I don't want to be should I just suck it up or leave? I can shoot my own guys to achieve my goals.
Again, hardly revolutionary.
A lot of the rules just make a ton of real world sense and aren't so abstract that you'll play them blindly just because they are rules.
The problem with your arguments is that it looks like you're comparing your experience with GW to PP exclusively. This is something I used to do, but a greater context will yield better results. How does PP compare to a flexible board game? How does it compare to skirmish scale games? How does it compare to card games?