BTR - Gav99 (admin edit - Not Gav99's fault) - Resolved

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Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 11:37 pm

Apologies for the double post. It looked like it was giving me a preview instead of posting my message.
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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by 3eland » Fri May 22, 2015 12:08 am

I removed the double post for you.

Also some useful information regarding this BTR and AI:
Aeronautica Imperialis is a companion game to Epic, which emphasises battles between armies on a larger scale than Warhammer 40,000. [...]

Gameplay-wise, the major difference between Epic and Aeronautica Imperialis is that instead of a player moving and firing tanks and troops, they are using aircraft and ground defense weapons.

The Aeronautica Imperialis rulebook contains not only rules for the games, but also two sheets of cards which are used to make special manoeuvres. Other content in the rulebook is background material on the individual aircraft, along with full colour plates and suggestions for painting. At the end of the book, there is a 'campaign' section with scenarios for players to recreate.
@OP - If you are not satisfied with the deal then you can always send the models back. However, I do not believe he should pay you before doing so.
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 11/10/1

AOS
KO - 1/6/0 ~ Idoneth 7/3/0 ~ Nurgle 1/2/2

Akaiyou ( 32 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Fri May 22, 2015 12:41 am

I already escalated the claim as per your request immediately upon realizing that it was a miscommunication and that perhaps the box was indeed not empty as it seems, I toned it down and asked you to resolve this like gentlemen and offered what I consider reasonable. And as you said you would've accepted it as reasonable had I asked in a nicer way.

Let me put it to you from my perspective perhaps you can understand why I was THAT upset.

If YOU went to the Warhammer 40k SALE section, looking for WARHAMMER 40k items, Found what you believe to be a great deal on miniatures whos name you recognize, you read the heading 'real forgeworld ships' under it, and immediately contact the seller to buy this stuff. You see a picture of a Nightwing which you recognize to be a nightwing because it looks exactly like a nightwing (remember the model you showed me was primed black and from 1 pic of models not painted to standard quality who can tell the exact level of detail??) and next to it there's this random black block of whatever it is (the AI base which not until the second pic had I any idea what the hell that was, and considered it background debri as is the case with most pictures displayed on these sales) then we get very amicably into the topic of full disclosure on the items so that I know exactly what I'm getting, the entire time referring to them as flyers which is THE standard name for 40k flyers. If you ask 100 40k Players what a Flyer i doubt that more than 1% will point to Aeronautic Imperialis. I may be wrong but something tells me the great majority will assume what I assumed that these were 40k Flyers since you were selling them in the 40k section and I did not see this Aeronautica Heading, nor the other picture where anyone with a pair of eyes can tell THESE are NOT Warhammer 40k.

Excuse me for expecting 40k models in the 40k section of Bartertown. Or for being ignorant of something that went out of print years ago. The forgeworld website doesn't have Aeronautica Imperialis, all you see when you visit it and look for the names on this listing is the standard 40k models.

Image

Maybe I missed the age when Aeronautica Imperialis was all the rage, but from my point of view I was super excited for this trade thinking i got a huge 75% deal again as i have in the past with Imperial Guard, and saw this tiny box arrive with my name on it and all i could think of was 'what the f*********** is this??' Like expecting a car delivered to your house and finding a Hotwheels mini out in the porch, going to a computer website buying an Apple and receiving a Fruit basket, you get the idea? So yes anger got the best of me I will concede that, and I will apologize for my share in the matter.

However my initial message was not insulting to you sir. I basically said "you sent me an empty box wtf?" to which you replied a huge paragraph threatening me with police action etc etc, you wrote 2 or 3 paragraphs of threats and insults as a response to my 1 sentence.

To me given the circumstance and my expectations of the item this seemed like a seller scamming me and wanting me to keep quiet. Again put yourself in my shoes and re-read things. We had both been quite reasonable with eachother up to that point.

The package is still unopened my friend, I basically didn't need to open it to find out that it is not what I thought I paid for. All I ask is that this is resolved like gentlemen (not the first time I have said this to you) I would like a full refund and I will glady incur the cost of shipping it back to you, I did ask to get the refund first, then you suggested I ship it out first to which I attempted to clarify and to agree to those terms if it would get me the refund in full. I am an honest person, and I stand by everything i've said so far, I get the sense that you guys are implying I got sudden tunnel vision upon seeing the recognizable names and the prices, but I stand by what I said that I did not see the heading and copy and pasted the section of interest to you as I saw it and proceeded to attempt to nab it before someone else did.

You have made the example that a store would not refund in full, I find this to be quite the opposite, most places WILL refund in full if you return their item intact, at most you will pay for the cost of shipping it back to them, and even then a large number of them will cover that cost too.

Ultimately I was in the 40k section looking for 40k items, and what I got was not standard 40k. Had same name, looked identical to the standard model from what i could tell but only through the lens of a microscope. I don't feel i am being unreasonable in asking for a full refund while shipping back your items intact at my expense.

Akaiyou ( 32 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Fri May 22, 2015 12:56 am

3eland wrote:I removed the double post for you.

Also some useful information regarding this BTR and AI:
Aeronautica Imperialis is a companion game to Epic, which emphasises battles between armies on a larger scale than Warhammer 40,000. [...]

Gameplay-wise, the major difference between Epic and Aeronautica Imperialis is that instead of a player moving and firing tanks and troops, they are using aircraft and ground defense weapons.

The Aeronautica Imperialis rulebook contains not only rules for the games, but also two sheets of cards which are used to make special manoeuvres. Other content in the rulebook is background material on the individual aircraft, along with full colour plates and suggestions for painting. At the end of the book, there is a 'campaign' section with scenarios for players to recreate.
@OP - If you are not satisfied with the deal then you can always send the models back. However, I do not believe he should pay you before doing so.
I messaged him telling him i would agree to his terms of me shipping it back to him first once I had his agreement that he would give me a full refund. I have no reason to want to keep these minis I don't play EPIC and not until today did i even know that Aeronautica Imperialis even existed. I could've done that today on the way home, hell i could've done that immediately after he gave me his word on it, he has refused on what he believes i am 100% at fault but I disagree I know what I saw, I copy and pasted it directly to him as i saw it, and asked him several questions to make sure this deal was legit to the extend of my knowledge. I asked "is it really both of them for $40? or just one?" Thinking maybe he had a typo or if the deal was as good as it sounded. 75% off in bartertown is not unheard of.

I will repeat it once more I am fully prepared to incur the cost of shipping the item back if the seller will agree to give me a full refund. I accept that as my responsibility in this dispute. I am also willing to ship it first, AFTER i have his word officially that he will give the full refund upon receiving the tracking number. Hell I will video the whole thing if he needs proof that I went to the post office with the shoebox and sent his item back and post it on here so that there is no doubt that it is in transit. The seller has only to accept his end of the responsibility in providing me a full refund and we are 'gucci' as they say. All good. No drama. Resolved like reasonable adults that we both are, which was my understanding in our initial communications which were good in my opinion.

Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Fri May 22, 2015 1:38 am

Firstly, thanks to all those that have responded.

Akaiyou
Part 1 of your post - So I suppose starship troopers are 40K? that X-wing is 40K? and that bloodbowl is 40K? Like all other users here I post my whole thread on every subforum that I have miniatures for sale/trade or that I want. This is within the rules. If you had bothered to actually read my thread you would have noticed VERY quickly that it was not a pure 40K thread. So this argument is moot.

Part 2 - Did you wonder why they were still available? If I saw 40K FW items for 90% off I'd snap them up and re-sell them. I'm sure you thought the same thing and it most likely did blind you as it's right there in your first message to me! I even posted your PM here so you can't deny it was there.
You didn't just contact me, you submitted a dispute calling me a "scammer" and then a PM stating the same thing. Heck let me show it:
Akaiyou wrote:
Gav99 wrote:No worries.

Send it via priority so can't imagine it'll take past Wednesday to arrive.
Dude you sent me an empty box that is *edit* up, I will report this as a scam.
Hardly nice. My response to this was based on the fact that you were saying I sent you an empty box and was stealing my AI minis. You didn't even bother to open the box and check, just assumed I scammed you.

Part 3 - You are still asking for the refund before I get the minis back. At NO POINT will I give you a red cent until my minis are back in my hands. What's to stop you from trashing my minis or sending back an empty box? At that point I have no money and no minis. You have paypal protection all the way through, so it makes no sense to send you anything until I have my minis back. I am going to contend the shipping costs until the end, and I feel I've sent sufficient proof to paypal that this is a return for wrongly ordered items (proof of correct listing, proof of negotiation, and a link to this post).

The only reasons stores cover return shipping is if they ship you the wrong or damaged item. I shipped you the correct items from my list that you negotiated for (even if under your own false interpretation) so this is all on you. Lets say I agree to your terms and end up $6 out of pocket for your error, what's to stop people taking advantage of that and costing me a fortune in shipping? I stand by my principle here and don't see how I should be paying for your mistake, especially after how you've spoken to me and lied.

Nothing was under a microscope and yes they look alike to the 40K one (though I don't know how you missed the AI bases in the same photo...), but they're meant to. This still does not absolve you of the fact that you failed to read the heading or the subheading. You went in assuming and you know what assuming does. I've traded here for a year and a half and you're the first person to ever misread my thread. If you think I'm wrong for posting about non-40K stuff, in addition to all my 40K stuff, on a 40K forum then go and read all the current threads. You'll notice that most contain non-40K things.

As reasonable as you think you're trying to be, you're still stuck on the disappointment at not getting 40K FW items at dirt cheap prices. I robbed you of nothing. It's like telling the lottery commission that they owe you the jackpot because you bought a ticket and was excited to win the jackpot but didn't because you misread the balls they pulled out. I understand that you're gutted about it, but that doesn't mean I deserve to be out of pocket for your mistake.
Trading on Dakkadakka under the same name.

Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Fri May 22, 2015 1:53 am

Also wanted to post what he's now saying on his paypal claim, as once again he's lying and spinning things to try and get ahead:

5/21/2015 19:33 EDT - PayPal: Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.

5/21/2015 19:33 EDT - Buyer: I went to purchase some warhammer 40k items. Warhammer 40k is the standard miniature game. This website has different sections for different types of games typically separated in order to keep things organized. So I entered the Warhammer 40k section of the website, i've made prior purchases here with discounts as good as 75% off. The seller had a listing for the following in this Eldar:2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25Orks:2x Fighta - painted TT - $40Imperials:2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $402x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $402x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $352x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30Which I even included in the NOTE TO SELLER when i made payment. These miniatures ARE indeed Warhammer 40k models rather expensive ones, so I thought the seller was offering them ~75% off, I referred to them as Flyers which is the standard name for the standard version and I asked seller for disclosure of anything I should know before making the purchase. He sent me a close up picture of 2 of the items which compared to the standard item you can't tell the difference. STANDARD VERSIONhttp://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/El ... tmlSELLERS ITEMhttp://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/God99099/0515152205b_zpshmts7s3c.jpgI do not play this 'mini' sized variant of the standard game, it is old and no longer supported, thus the majority current players have never heard of "Aeronautica Imperialis", unless you had prior knowledge you'd assume it is the standard model upon looking at it. Seller expected someone in the Warhammer 40k section to know about something that was discounted a decade ago. Knowing the size of standard models I didnt even open his package. It feels empty and is too small. Please help

5/21/2015 19:19 EDT - Buyer: I was in the correct section looking for Warhammer 40k items and what I got was NOT warhammer 40k. Seller himself confirmed that.

5/21/2015 19:16 EDT - Buyer:
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:57 pmFrom: Gav99(232)To: Akaiyou My original listing:__________________________________Aeronautica Imperialis___________________________________________Books:Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50 (2nd copy)Tactica Aeronautica Expansion - Great Condition $50Ships (all real forgeworld and all come with AI bases):Eldar:2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25Orks:2x Fighta - painted TT - $40Imperials:2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $402x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $402x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $352x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30Here's a photo example of Aeronautica Imperialis minis:http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss19/yarrek/AE03.jpg
Had I seen or been sent that photo at any point i would've declined this deal right away. As you saw in his earlier message where he claimed I bought EPIC 40k Flyers, what he claim as his listing does not describe them as EPIC 40k flyers at any point. I don't even recall seeing the heading, I copy and pasted to him what I saw and was interested in and assumed these were STANDARD 40k models because that is the norm my first message to him supports this and he at no point made any effort to tell me otherwise. The section of the website that I was viewing when I found his listing was in the Warhammer 40k section. it was NOT the EPIC 40k section so for me to enter his listing and assume that models not described as EPIC 40K should be STANDARD miniatures is not a stretch. If you see a sign on a computer store APPLE $100, and the seller fails to let you know that you are buying fruits for $100 and not an actual
5/21/2015 19:15 EDT - Buyer: I sent the seller the following message in an attempt to resolve this amicably:
"disclose everything" includes letting me know what game system this is for. I don't think paypal will disagree with me on that.But that aside, perhaps I didn't understand your earlier response about the refund. If i ship this back to you today you will give me a full refund after I give you proof of shipment?Ultimately I just want my full refund today. I am not going to cover the expense you had in shipping it here, the same way that i won't ask you to cover the expense of me shipping it there.So full refund upon receipt of tracking # ? If those are your terms I can agree to that. Let me know.
He has apparently declined that very reasonable resolution.Earlier he sent me the following:
You're claiming an empty box, yet you didn't even open it?You are correct, 12 40K flyers would NOT fit in that box. Good thing, because you bought EPIC 40K flyers. Check the original message and you will confirm that I sold you my EPIC 40K Aeronautica Imperialis flyers AS LISTED. Epic 40K is 6mm 40K so 12 flyers would fit into that box easily, with their associated Aeronautica Imperialis flight bases and stems.
I have screen shots of this conversation as proof. He claims I bought EPIC 40K flyers, but that was neither in his original listing nor disclosed in the conversation when I asked him for disclosure of any details i should know of regarding the item. When i later stated "I do not want EPIC miniatures" he then proceeds to tell me it is not EPIC, yet his own message says that they are. This is another message sent to me by him describing his listing which he now says is none related.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:57 pmFrom: Gav99(232)To: Akaiyou My original listing:__________________________________Aeronautica Imperialis___________________________________________Books:Aeronautica Imperialis G

I've pointed paypal to this thread so that they can see everything that's been said (as he's obviously trying to falsely prove that it's all my fault that he thought they were 40K flyers) and I welcome any and all comments from Btown users that can fairly contribute to show paypal how this should be settled.
Trading on Dakkadakka under the same name.

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by 3eland » Fri May 22, 2015 3:28 am

Paypal will unfortunately not come here to read the BTR. The only thing they care about is the proof handed over to them. You can screen shot this entire BTR and submit it to them but other than that nothing will happen re: reading this.
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 11/10/1

AOS
KO - 1/6/0 ~ Idoneth 7/3/0 ~ Nurgle 1/2/2

Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Fri May 22, 2015 3:32 am

So far that's what I've been doing. Sent them 5 photos already showing my thread with headings and subheadings (clearly showing it says Aeronautica Imperialis), 2 of the trade negotiation (showing 40K was never mentioned, and that he agreed to it all without confirming his misconceptions), and 2 of other users comments to show impartial views. I have time to add more if need be, but have put plenty of proof in to show that it's no fault of mine.
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by spiralingcadaver » Fri May 22, 2015 3:34 am

Just popping in, sorry Akayou, but Gav's in the right here. There are tons of specialist games, space hulk, etc. pieces that make it in to the 40k section. I'd cut my losses and try to unload them here or on ebay or w/e.
True, we love life, not because we are used to living but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness.
-Nietzsche

I expect honesty about models' conditions, thank you.

If I don't respond in a day or two, please check back, I've forgotten-sorry.

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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri May 22, 2015 3:59 am

Akaiyou, I'm starting to get a little p!ssed off right now. Two things you should know about that:
1) Getting me p!ssed off is VERY hard to do.
2) When it happens, nothing good comes from it.

Although there are 3, maybe 4, people on the board who will disagree with this, I'm going to say it anyway: I don't "put my foot down" very often. I'm generally easygoing and try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm no ogre and I don't throw my Admin weight around.
I'm going to do it now, though. I'm putting my foot down about the following things:

1)
Stop saying he misled you. Aeronautica Imperialis and 40K Aeronautica are different. If you paid ANY attention, you'd have noticed the extra word (Imperialis) and wondered WTF that was about. Instead, I believe you were blinded by your desire to jump on such a great deal before someone else snatched it out from under you.
"Flyers" is not universal to 40K. It is used in Aeronautica Imperialis, as well... and that isn't to mention the myriad OTHER games that use it.
YOUR lack of knowledge and research caused this issue. Period. Full stop.
If you say again in this thread that he misled you, you WILL receive a board warning. That is not a threat, it is fair warning.
2)
Do not compare this to buying a car and getting a Hot Wheels again. It is more akin to buying a Hot Wheels, thinking you're getting a really awesome car, only to find out it's a die cast toy, the brand name you happen to never have heard of although you are known to play with die cast cars.
Your example is wrong. Stop bandying it about.
3)
Stop misrepresenting this site in your PayPal claim. What you (an inexperienced trader) have convinced yourself that the particular trade forums are is quite wrong. Read the rules. Learn the rules. Follow the rules.

Now that this is behind us, let me point out a couple things:

Gav... you made a -pardon me- stupid mistake. Saying they were Epic in your after-the-fact explanation was just all kinds of wrong. Not that you were purposefully misstating what the minis were, you just explained it wrong, Had you included one word, you'd have robbed him of the "He said they were epic" that he's latching onto. You should've said, "Epic sized."
Sized.

Akaiyou... that you received a picture of the mini and base after he said "Ships (all real forgeworld and all come with AI bases):" shows that he was upfront and, again, you were too eager for the great deal to pay close attention.
What did you think an AI base was? A Flyer base? Don't even try that. There's no such thing as an "Aeronautica" base in 40K, so saying that would not make you look good.
Know what. Forget I asked. It was a rhetorical question. I don't want to know what you thought "AI base meant, because it's not going to change anything.

You should also pay a little more attention to the world of online retailing. I have NEVER done business with ANY company online who refunds shipping when the mistake was in YOUR end, or you simply changed your mind; only when the mistake was theirs.

Now, dial down the drama.
At this point, I'm putting down ANOTHER Admin foot. Only staff and the two parties involved from here on out should post in this thread. If you have something you think is important for the thread, PM it to a staff member (with a link to this thread) and get permission. If they give you permission, you need to post WHO approved you to put the post in here.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Fri May 22, 2015 4:07 am

Part 1 - I believe the point is not moot, and it is an important point, and your thread IS edited. I revised it today, you say you 'removed the items already sold' probably but to me it looks like you edited in additional info and removed what you had sold me. I copy and pasted my first message to you directly from your thread, listing the parts of your thread i was interested in and asked you for full disclosure as we spoke.

Part 2 - Look at the time stamps my friend, time stamps tell a different story to what you are trying to spin.

I posted this thread at 3:21 pm Eastern time. Keep that Time Stamp in mind.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 1:16 pm
by Akaiyou

Dude you sent me an empty box wtf? I'm reporting this.
Time stamp here is 1:16 pm and all i said was you sent me an empty box wtf?? the exact same thing that I claimed to have said earlier in this thread that you then tried to miscontrue by omitting important things (would not be the first time you do this)

Mind you this was when I initially got the box and was in absolute shock seeking an immediate explanation.

Then the message you quoted me in was sent at 1:17 pm because I saw you read the first one but did not respond to it. (admittedly I could've given you more time than 1 minute but everyone that's ever been angry knows a minute when you are pissed off feels like an eternity)

Then i WAITED for you sir I waited a whole HOUR for your response even though the message was already 'read' soon after i sent it. And you replied the following:
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:28 pm
by Gav99
Funny, very funny. I packed those minis in carefully wrapped decently in bubblewrap. I have a photo of the packed box (I always take one as proof) clearly showing the minis packed inside.

So either you're lying to scam me out of my minis and the payment, or you're suggesting that the mailman stole the minis out of the box whilst in transit. As the latter is VERY unlikely, I have to surmise that you're lying to try to scam me.

As such you've earned a negative ref and a bad trader report for your scam. Being as you only have 8 refs to my 230 (and one of yours is sketchy as is) it'll only prove my bad trader report on you and you'll never trade or buy here again. I know the admin like to get the local police involved on scams so I'll be looking into this option also. I have your full name, address (from 2 sources), and our written agreement.

Edit:
I was tempted to post one straight away due to being furious but after speaking with my wife, who talked me down from a rash response, I will give you until this evening to come clean about this and end the dispute. If you continue with this scam I'll be forced to go ahead with the aforementioned course of action.
That was your response to my message plenty threats and accusations to go around far more than you claim I did in my 1 sentence messages. The time stamp here is 2:28pm that means that I did not create a thread until 1 whole hour of bickering back and forth with you.

So please stop trying to make yourself look good by omitting information. It only makes me more suspicious of your intentions in this dispute.

Part 3 - You are still asking for the refund before I get the minis back.
Did you wait for me to get the minis delivered before you asked me to send payment? I sent payment promptly to all buyers (check my references) and even then I am asking you to provide the full refund AFTER i ship your items back to you, I even offered to RECORD and post a VIDEO as proof for you that your items were shipped and are in transit or will you further accuse me of being a video editing specialist and somehow cheat you out of your minis while they are in transit?

I'm trying to work with you here and you are not budging so all I can do at this point is await for paypal to decide. I will accept no less than a full refund as I am returning your package INTACT the same way i received it.

Akaiyou ( 32 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Fri May 22, 2015 4:34 am

Out of curiosity because perhaps I was the ONLY player of 40k in the past years that has not heard of this Aeronautica Imperialis that not even the forgeworld website itself any longer supports, hadn't heard of it. I made polls on some sites to ask the question answer the question of 'what percentage is aware that this thing even exists?' just for my own personal knowledge I posted this hours ago. But since one of the messages above claims that because i am a 40k player i should know EVERY SINGLE THING RELATED TO 40K apparently I want to share the results of the poll with you all

At the time of this post the results are as follows
In dakkadakka 62% of the votes say that only a quarter of the entire 40k community in the USA would have heard of this Aeronautica Imperialis. Hell the very first comment wrote 'what is it?', and others that commented say they have seen no one play it. Or just within small groups
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... ge#7851181

In warseer 57% also voted that only a quarter of the 40k community would know what aeronautica imperialis is. Comments also very similar to what was said in dakkadakka.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... iliar-with

Those are the 2 biggest websites besides BoLs that i frequent with the most diverse user base.I simply want this to reflect that you are implying every single player including new guys who just got into the hobby must KNOW of everything that has ever existed 40k related even if it's no longer supported by official sources. I believe that is a ridiculous notion.

I closed 2 other trades that arrived between yesterday and today as described no problems at all pleasure doing business with them, one of them already left me positive feedback on it great experience. This is the only one causing me drama, I'd very much like to resolve it and be done with it. I have no interest in this game system that was discontinued years ago and that most people have never heard of, wish the units werent named identically to the current standard ones that are on the forgeworld website. I did take my time and look at forgeworld AND looked in the Imperial Armour Aeronautica book because you know its all CURRENT stuff, before buying. And i asked the seller to let me know if there was anything else to know. That flying base i ahd no idea it was a flying base, was the nightwing a flying stem stuck to it? If i had not seen the 2nd picture after the fact i wouldve never guessed that hexagon looking thing was a flying base. Have you seen flying bases in 40k?? do they look anything like that?

40k is the ONLY tabletop game i play. Any knowledge i have on miniature gaming is based solely on 40k, i don't need to take a history course on every product games workshop has put out. I went in to the warhammer 40k section to purchase warhammer 40k items, saw what i recognized as the names of current 40k models copied the listing and asked the seller if those prices were for real, or if it was 'per' model since I couldn't belive the pricing was that good.

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 (admin edit - Communication Issues)

Post by 3eland » Fri May 22, 2015 4:49 am

Okay you guys need to stop the back and forth. It is obvious you two do not agree and there needs to be no further quabble. Only posts of what you wish to do to rectify this problem should be posted from here on in.

I do not believe Gav99 should be responsible in the shipment costs. It is clear you bought something you thought was a good deal but failed to read the entire thing. I do not believe Gav99 did not put the AI header in his post, as that is something everyone does, even new people. AI is clearly not 40k, although defined by Forgeworld as a companion game to Epic with "the major difference between Epic and Aeronautica Imperialis is that instead of a player moving and firing tanks and troops, they are using aircraft and ground defense weapons".

"Flyers" does indeed qualify in this regard since it is a game of.. flying aircraft. Epic, to a degree, even qualifies in this regard since it is a companion game to Epic. Although I do agree with MM that stating Epic sized would have been better.

@OP re: polls. Your information is not fully valid. Only 14 users on dakka and 7 on Warseer voted. Out of thousands of users. It is way too early to put any of that information to use.

You two need to sort this issue out calmly and maturely. No more back and forth of "he said, she said and this is what I believe".

I would like you both to report the original message you sent/received. That way we can see exactly what was sent/received without having the admin roll back the server. You can do so by hitting the report PM button in the message. I will then post a follow up comment regarding this editing out/in information issue. If we find that there is indeed no information saying it is AI or of another scale of 40k then we can proceed with this matter in the proper way.

Ryan
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 11/10/1

AOS
KO - 1/6/0 ~ Idoneth 7/3/0 ~ Nurgle 1/2/2

Akaiyou ( 32 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 (admin edit - Communication Issues)

Post by Akaiyou » Fri May 22, 2015 5:31 am

No problem, I want to point out what i said before, you can't expect every single person to know what this "stuff" is, specially a short hand "AI" nor what the flying bases for a system thats hardly known. If it weren't for classic movies (media) or time pieces most would have no idea what a 1903 Ford car looks like.

I will report the original message as you asked, as I copy and pasted the section which I feel was latter edited to be look as if it was under the AI heading that I apparently tunnel visioned through. As for the poll i did say 'at the time of this post' and gave links so that anyone interested could view the results in real time. Had i tried to mislead I would've offered no links. I want everything to be transparent if any of you believe im playing some kind of game you are affected by your own biased and should remove yourself from this conversation. I believe i've been upfront 100% in every message with every single person i've traded anyway thats all i have to say. I'll do as requested, civilized discussion achieves more than rabid exchanges.

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 (admin edit - Communication Issues)

Post by 3eland » Fri May 22, 2015 6:23 am

Apologies, I meant reporting the original message with the quoted full list from Gav99 (showing his original ad as listed). If there is one. If not then unfortunately there is no easy way of determining exactly what the list said.

And yes, you are right, you cannot expect everyone to know what AI is. That is why a fully descriptive list is part of Bartertown's rules. Hence the importance of my request. If there is no clear header stating the models were AI then I can see how one may think they were 40k (as cheap as they may have been).
Thank you,

Ryan
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 11/10/1

AOS
KO - 1/6/0 ~ Idoneth 7/3/0 ~ Nurgle 1/2/2

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