BTR - Gav99 (admin edit - Not Gav99's fault) - Resolved

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Akaiyou ( 32 )
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BTR - Gav99 (admin edit - Not Gav99's fault) - Resolved

Post by Akaiyou » Thu May 21, 2015 7:21 pm

This guy is a scammer, we had a deal that i felt was perhaps too good to be true and was really excited to jump on. He was selling 40k Forgeworld Flyers which he described as REAL FORGEWORLD models (i had a bad experience here with someone selling me a knockoff Drop Pod) so this led me to quickly claim those models from this seller. After several messages negotiating we came to a solid agreement for which payment was promptly sent (i even attached a note to the payment) he accepted it and shipped me an empty box! I have the package in question it is the size of a shoebox, 12 40k flyers do not fit in this box, the box label itself has a description of 0 lbs as the weight, i grabbed it shook it to see if there was any noise inside whatsoever indicating that there is anything at all inside and nothing. It is an empty box I did not even bother opening it, it is in the exact same condition that he shipped it to me. I will be providing pictures of it and I plead the admins to help me out here, I want a full refund, this guy is a horrible person and I will do whatever is needed to seek justice here.

I will be posting the conversation. And if the admins need to access my account to double check all the facts do feel free I am an open book. If there's anything else I can do to collaborate please do let me know this is my first time making a bad trader report so excuse me in advance. I am very upset with this nonsense. I contacted the 'seller' and he denied any wrong doing claiming that having more references automatically makes him right in Bartertown and basically stating that i'm screwed out of my money on the notion that admins apparently only agree with whoever has higher number of references.

These are our messages:
Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 12:24 am
by Akaiyou
Lol sorry i meant to ask how much would the total be for all these assuming you sweeten the deal for taking several of them, as you mentioned in your post that you would

Eldar:
2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25

Orks:
2x Fighta - painted TT - $40

Imperials:
2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $40
2x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $40
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $35
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30

Top
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 1:07 am
by Gav99
Just to be clear, the listing contains 2 sets of 2 lightnings (4 total), and 2 sets of 2 thunderbolts (4 total)

I'd be knocking off a bit too much to go down to $100 for the 4 thunderbolts, 4 lightnings, and 2 ork fighters. I have them priced at $185 and can't knock about half off.

The elder is pending, but I consider sale closed once I get payment, so if we conclude a deal first then I will let the other guy know that they're gone.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Oooooooooh so it's 10 of them total, ok so what is a reasonable discount for you, toss me a number you think is suitable and i can take it into consideration and possible take these 10 flyers off your hands.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 1:22 am
by Gav99
Well if you want the 2 elder also then there'd be 12 lol.

The total I have the whole lot listed for is $210 (including the eldar). I can offer free shipping and knock $10 off, which means for $50 over your offer of $150 you're getting free shipping and 4 extra ships.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

So you are saying that the eldar are available if I pay $200 for everything? (all 12 flyers?)
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 1:38 am
by Gav99
They're available until the other guy pays lol. So if you pay first then they're yours and I'll tell him he waited too long to pay.

I must note though, that the elder are missing all but 1 of the small tail fins, hence the price for them
Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 1:46 am
by Akaiyou

I'm confused the eldar flyers are missing everythign except for 1 small fin? that's how your message reads. Im not sure if that was intended.

The original listing said they are only missing the small fins. Please send pics of these flyers to my email <removed by staff>

I usually pay immediately if the deal is good and communication is prompt.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98 ... ts7s3c.jpg
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 2:06 am
by Akaiyou

Alright sir so you want $200 for everything correct?

I would like to know if there's anything else in the spirit of full disclosure to know about the other items?
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 2:20 am
by Akaiyou

Gav99 wrote:
Any issues with the minis are written next to them on the listing, I just wanted to make sure that the Eldar were especially noted being as they're the ones you wanted most.

Just to be sure from my side, as I didn't stipulate free shipping destinations (foolish of me as certain countries are expensive regardless of weight), where would I be shipping them to?



Ship To:
<removed by staff>

I believe we have a deal for $200 shipping included for all 12 flyers. If you can provide me with your paypal i can send payment right now. Always a pleasure to negotiate with good communication.

Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 2:09 am
by Gav99
Any issues with the minis are written next to them on the listing, I just wanted to make sure that the Eldar were especially noted being as they're the ones you wanted most.

Just to be sure from my side, as I didn't stipulate free shipping destinations (foolish of me as certain countries are expensive regardless of weight), where would I be shipping them to?
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 2:30 am
by Akaiyou

Gav99 wrote:
Deal it is. If it clears immediately I'll have them out to you tomorrow, and PA to NY will only take a day or two.

Paypal is:

god99099@yahoo.com



Payment sent. My payments always clear you can check my references if you wish regarding that. Thank you for the great communication and specially for the full disclosure BT needs more of that. Please ship soon as you can I'll be looking forward to receiving the tracking number soon.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 2:36 am
by Gav99
Received and cleared. I'll have them packaged up and out in the mail tomorrow for you. I'll link the tracking to paypal and send you the number here also.

Cheers,
Gav
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 6:38 pm
by Gav99
Tracking number 9405509699937601144775

Have them all heavily bubblewrapped and decently packaged so they should arrive as I sent them.
Sent: Mon May 18, 2015 6:50 pm
by Akaiyou

Gav99 wrote:
Tracking number 9405509699937601144775

Have them all heavily bubblewrapped and decently packaged so they should arrive as I sent them.




Is that USPS or UPS? The USPS website says

Tracking Number: 9405509699937601144775
Image of a progress bar displaying error status
error

The Postal Service could not locate the tracking information for your request. Please verify your tracking number and try again later.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 1:16 pm
by Akaiyou

Dude you sent me an empty box wtf? I'm reporting this.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:28 pm
by Gav99
Funny, very funny. I packed those minis in carefully wrapped decently in bubblewrap. I have a photo of the packed box (I always take one as proof) clearly showing the minis packed inside.

So either you're lying to scam me out of my minis and the payment, or you're suggesting that the mailman stole the minis out of the box whilst in transit. As the latter is VERY unlikely, I have to surmise that you're lying to try to scam me.

As such you've earned a negative ref and a bad trader report for your scam. Being as you only have 8 refs to my 230 (and one of yours is sketchy as is) it'll only prove my bad trader report on you and you'll never trade or buy here again. I know the admin like to get the local police involved on scams so I'll be looking into this option also. I have your full name, address (from 2 sources), and our written agreement.

Edit:
I was tempted to post one straight away due to being furious but after speaking with my wife, who talked me down from a rash response, I will give you until this evening to come clean about this and end the dispute. If you continue with this scam I'll be forced to go ahead with the aforementioned course of action.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:43 pm
by Akaiyou

Gav99 wrote:
Funny, very funny. I packed those minis in carefully wrapped decently in bubblewrap. I have a photo of the packed box (I always take one as proof) clearly showing the minis packed inside.

So either you're lying to scam me out of my minis and the payment, or you're suggesting that the mailman stole the minis out of the box whilst in transit. As the latter is VERY unlikely, I have to surmise that you're lying to try to scam me.

As such you've earned a negative ref and a bad trader report for your scam. Being as you only have 8 refs to my 230 (and one of yours is sketchy as is) it'll only prove my bad trader report on you and you'll never trade or buy here again. I know the admin like to get the local police involved on scams so I'll be looking into this option also. I have your full name, address (from 2 sources), and our written agreement.

Edit:
I was tempted to post one straight away due to being furious but after speaking with my wife, who talked me down from a rash response, I will give you until this evening to come clean about this and end the dispute. If you continue with this scam I'll be forced to go ahead with the aforementioned course of action.



That is great please lets get the police involved I filed a claim with paypal and I received your package and didn't even open it because 12 40k Flyers do NOT fit in a damn shoe box that has a weight of 0 lbs on the package. And when I move the box around there is absolutely no kind of noise indicating that there is anything inside. I am a grown ass man give me a full refund and stop trying to scam people on the internet.

I will be taking pictures of this "Shipment" you sent me all in its original packaging as proof of this absurdity. I thought the deal was too good to be true and it certainly was. I have all the proof necessary to seek my damn refund. I am not playing with you, if you changed your mind on selling the 'real forgeworld 40k models' then that's fine I would've accepted that you backed out of the deal without leaving you a negative reference, you aren't the first person that backs out. I can be very understanding and considerate, but i do not tolerate scammers. You are the second person running a scam that I encounter, first one tried to sell me some counterfeit goods passing it as real forgeworld, but you sir, you take the cake! You sent me an empty package. Congratulations.

I am filing a bad trader report as we speak and will seek the admins on this. I will stay on top of this until you provide a full refund, legal action will be most definetly sought PA isn't far from New York.

Gav99 ( 546 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 7:50 pm

Laughable error on behalf of the buyer here. He thought he was getting full sized 28mm 40K forgeworld flyers when the listing clearly said Aeronautica Imperialis in several places. For those that don't know about AI (like the buyer) they're 6-8mm scale (slightly bigger than epic 40K) aircraft for the game Aeronautica Imperialis.

Here's my original listing (from his initial message, that he failed to show):
Akaiyou wrote:Eldar:
2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25

Orks:
2x Fighta - painted TT - $40

Imperials:
2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $40
2x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $40
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $35
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30

Subject: H: Nec, Nids, CSM, AM, Orks, SM/SW W: $, AM, FW, etc
Gav99 wrote:I am willing part out anything, as well as accept small trades for stuff I want. Prices are negotiable, but dependent on how much you buy. I'm not looking to get rich, but I expect a fair price especially as I always prune and clean up every model I assemble so all you need to do is paint it and finish the assembly (I leave off any parts that block painting).

Prices do not include shipping - shipping changes per item, per location, per amount of things you buy, so it's just easier to calculate it afterwards.

Haves

__________________________________Starship Troopers___________________________________________

Arachnids - Sell all for $75
Plasma Bug - NIB $25
Blister/Blaster Bugs - NIB (3 minis) $17
3x Hopper bugs - NIB (3 minis per box) $15 each

MI Troopers x8 plastic NOS $20

__________________________________Bolt Action / Flames of War___________________________________________

Flames of War
  • Open Fire rulebook - used, in OK condition (few loose pages, otherwise good) $5

Bolt Action

American Army Book - Brand new - $15


__________________________________Games Workshop - OOP Games___________________________________________

__________________________________Aeronautica Imperialis___________________________________________

Books:
Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50
Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50 (2nd copy)
Tactica Aeronautica Expansion - Great Condition $50

Ships (all real forgeworld and all come with AI bases):

Eldar:
2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25

Orks:
2x Fighta - painted TT - $40

Imperials:
2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $40
2x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $40
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $35
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30

Bloodbowl

Plastic Orc team from starter box NOS ($15)


Battlefleet Gothic
Cut off most of my thread because it's very long. As you can see there's the heading "Games Workshop - OOP Games" followed by the subheading "Aeronautica Imperialis" under which the ships are listed. Also grouped with them are the AI books, and it even states that they come with AI bases. Later in my thread is a GW section with a 40K subheading, so this should have lead to questions of what is AI and why isn't it under 40K, but under OOP games instead.


Another laughable point is that he didn't even open the box. How can you declare it empty if you don't even open it?

He went straight to paypal claiming that I scammed him sending him an empty box, and then came here and accused me of the same. No message to ask what happened, no conversation, just a nasty accusation.

As such I'm very much annoyed with this, when it's his misunderstanding and failure to ask me questions (I was up front about everything about the items, he just never asked if they were 40K, just assumed as such a cheap price) that caused the whole thing.
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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Thu May 21, 2015 7:57 pm

So, Akaiyou, what do you have to say about that?

That pic is very clearly of an Eldar AI flyer.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:04 pm

As a P.S. I offered to refund him his money (minus shipping and fees, because this isn't my fault) if he returns the items. I did so as soon as I figured out what was going on here, as initially he was telling me it was an empty box, not that he didn't even bother opening it. He just shook it and assumed it was empty, but anyone who's traded with me will know that I package my stuff seriously and the stuff inside doesn't shift around.

He is still claiming that it is all my fault for mis-labeling my thread so that he thought he was getting 40K flyers, even saying that "I said flyers multiple times, which means 40K flyers". How are AI minis not "flyers" lol. So now he wants all his money back including shipping. I don't see how this is my fault when they are clearly listed as AI... but I will leave it to impartial Btown members. If you think my listing is faulty, please say so, otherwise please let this guy know that he should read the listings more closely and ask more questions to what he doesn't understand. Whichever is the majority is how I will proceed with his refund.

Cheers.
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Gav99 ( 546 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:07 pm

Proceed with his refund = if he gets his initial shipping costs back or not. He will get the rest back regardless on receipt of the return.

Trying to be as fair as I can.
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Akaiyou ( 32 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Thu May 21, 2015 8:10 pm

I copy and pasted the listing to him, the picture was a close up I have never heard of Aeuronautica Imperialis, I looked closely at the Eldar Nightwing compared it to the Forgeworld model and it looked legit. The seller messaged me a picture during the dispute claiming it was in the listing the picture CLEARLY shows these aren't 40k models. The listing did not have these under EPIC 40k either, which the seller claimed these were for epic aswell.

The entire time I referred to them as flyers as you can see in our messages. Imperial Armour has an Aeronautica book which is what i thought he referred to which i DID check before purchasing any of this to make sure all these flyers are in it, and they are. I showed the messages exactly as we discussed, I was given no reason to believe these were not 40k playable models.

Ultimately I agreed to have this resolved as a miscommunication between us and i have no problem shipping the shoebox back and covering the cost of shipping it to him. But I want a full refund. I purchased these in good faith and he had shown me the other picture where it's clear what these are I would've immediately said no. To someone that doesn't know that black 'base' or whatever that thing is next to the nightwings these look identical to their 40k Forgeworld Counterparts.

Gav99 ( 546 )
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:28 pm

Let me post the message then to show that I said it was an example to show you what AI is, being as you told me you didn't know what AI was (I NEVER said it was in my thread!):
Akaiyou wrote:That photo was not in your original listing I even asked you for a picture of the eldar flyers which you sent me a close up of, when I compared it to the ones on the forgeworld website for 40k flyers it looked legit and I was happy with it.

As i said before the box is unopened you can have it back. You saw me referring to the 'flyers' and asking for full disclosure you could've just given me a heads up no fuss no muss. I have never played EPIC first time i ever hear of any Aeronautica Imperialis.

I asked you for flyers, these aren't it. Agree to a refund I can agree to ship these back and the matter is settled like gentlemen.
Gav99 wrote:My original listing:
__________________________________Aeronautica Imperialis___________________________________________

Books:
Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50
Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50 (2nd copy)
Tactica Aeronautica Expansion - Great Condition $50

Ships (all real forgeworld and all come with AI bases):

Eldar:
2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25

Orks:
2x Fighta - painted TT - $40

Imperials:
2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $40
2x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $40
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $35
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30


Here's a photo example of Aeronautica Imperialis minis:

Image

At those prices, how could you not ask more questions instead of assume that they're 40K minis? I mean, seriously!

How do I know that you don't know what AI is. I have no clue that you thought they were 40K minis after reading the heading, the subheading, the grouping of items, and the prices being way off what forgeworld charges for 40K FW minis. Just because you keep saying flyer doesn't mean they can't be AI, as the whole game is about flyers.

I honestly don't see how you can continue to claim that I mislead you.
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Thu May 21, 2015 8:42 pm

The picture above CLEARLY shows this is not 40k Forgeworld. The listing was not under epic. 40k does have an AERONAUTICA book and i'm fairly sure that those minis are not as well known as you may assume they are. I didn't see the huge heading you keep pointing to, I did the real forgeworld bit and copy and pasted the list of items and spoke to you reasonably the entire time in the negotiation. Bartertown has crazy deals this wouldnt have been the first time i get items 70-75% off retail in my own listing i try to come close to that. I did look at your references before the purchase you seemed legit, but so did the other guy that tried to sell me a knockoff drop pod and then got upset when I said 'wtf is this?' (even though in our messages he admitted to knowingly selling me a knockoff) so having tons of good references doesn't exempt you from blame.

I have inboxed you twice already with reasonable terms for resolving this.

Provide me with a full refund of the $200. As soon as I see this refund i will walk over to the post office (it is real close to where i am) and ship this right back to you in the exact same state that you shipped it to me. I will cover the cost of shipping it back to you as acceptance of my half of the blame in this misunderstanding. I am not also going to pay for whatever it cost you to ship it over here in the first place.

I believe this is reasonable and puts the matter to rest. I am still waiting on you to agree or get back to me on it. I have no interest in these tiny ships.

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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:58 pm

As said to you in PM, I'm done negotiating with you because you're intolerably twisting everything I say and for the fact that we're getting no where with your demands of full refund up front. This is not how it works, EVER! Refund on receipt of the minis only. You are protected by paypal buyer protection and I am not, so you return first, providing a tracking number, and then I refund you on receipt. Even then, I still claim that YOU misread my post, and YOU alone got it into your head that these were 40K (everyone but you can clearly see they are listed as AI!) so I have no reason to refund your shipping, especially after how disgustingly you've dealt with me.

Yes, they're not listed as epic, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EPIC! They're listed as AI because they're AI. They can be used for epic though, and that's what I told you, I did not say they were listed as epic even once.

If this continues I will escalate this to a paypal claim myself and we'll just deal with it that way. I have enough proof to show that you ordered an incorrect item, not a "not as described" item.
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu May 21, 2015 9:55 pm

OFFICIAL ADMIN INPUT HERE

Akaiyou, you are wrong. It is not HIS fault that you don't know what Aeronautica Imperialis is. Although it's similar in size to Epic, IT IS NOT EPIC. He's under NO requirement to list them as Epic. He listed them under THE NAME OF THE GAME. That is what we require here.

This BTR will be left open FOR NOW, so that this can be fussed out. In the end, though, IT WILL BE REMOVED.

Akaiyou - You were expecting REAL FW flyers for 40K at the prices he had listed? Really? And nothing about that struck you as ODD? When have you EVER seen legit FW models in decent condition go for those prices?

Gav99, please post a copy of the pic you sent him (unless the one above is the pic) when he asked for pics.

Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 10:05 pm

The pic he asked for during the negotiation of sale was in his initial post showing the 2 eldar nightwings.

The second photo (that I posted above, from our PM's) was because he said he didn't know what AI is, so I sent him a google images photo showing a range of AI ships as an example. I figured he may have finally opened the box and that would show that I had sent him AI minis as per the listing and stop claiming that I sent him an empty box.

The second photo was sent after he had opened this BTR, so was in no way associated with the sale negotiation.
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Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Thu May 21, 2015 10:46 pm

Gav99 wrote:As said to you in PM, I'm done negotiating with you because you're intolerably twisting everything I say and for the fact that we're getting no where with your demands of full refund up front. This is not how it works, EVER! Refund on receipt of the minis only. You are protected by paypal buyer protection and I am not, so you return first, providing a tracking number, and then I refund you on receipt. Even then, I still claim that YOU misread my post, and YOU alone got it into your head that these were 40K (everyone but you can clearly see they are listed as AI!) so I have no reason to refund your shipping, especially after how disgustingly you've dealt with me.

Yes, they're not listed as epic, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EPIC! They're listed as AI because they're AI. They can be used for epic though, and that's what I told you, I did not say they were listed as epic even once.

If this continues I will escalate this to a paypal claim myself and we'll just deal with it that way. I have enough proof to show that you ordered an incorrect item, not a "not as described" item.

In his reply to me he wrote
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:51 pm
From: Gav99(232)
To: Akaiyou
You're claiming an empty box, yet you didn't even open it?

You are correct, 12 40K flyers would NOT fit in that box. Good thing, because you bought EPIC 40K flyers. Check the original message and you will confirm that I sold you my EPIC 40K Aeronautica Imperialis flyers AS LISTED. Epic 40K is 6mm 40K so 12 flyers would fit into that box easily, with their associated Aeronautica Imperialis flight bases and stems.
So it's not epic yet the first thing he noted is that i bought EPIC 40k flyers. The logic here fails. I copy and pasted the listing as i saw it in my 1st post to him, he has edited his listing.
Re: Oops! Was so eager i forgot to write my message!

Sent: Thu May 21, 2015 2:57 pm
From: Gav99(232)
To: Akaiyou
My original listing:
__________________________________Aeronautica Imperialis___________________________________________

Books:
Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50
Aeronautica Imperialis Game Rulebook - Great condition $50 (2nd copy)
Tactica Aeronautica Expansion - Great Condition $50

Ships (all real forgeworld and all come with AI bases):

Eldar:
2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25

Orks:
2x Fighta - painted TT - $40

Imperials:
2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $40
2x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $40
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $35
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30


Here's a photo example of Aeronautica Imperialis minis:

Image
That's what he sent me today the only parts of that i recognize as what was in the listing when i saw it is this part

Ships (all real forgeworld and all come with AI bases):

Eldar:
2x Nightwing fighter - 1 primed black, 1 primed black with some paint (both missing the small fins) - $25

Orks:
2x Fighta - painted TT - $40

Imperials:
2x Thunderbolt fighter - TT painted thinly, so can be repainted/finished to higher standard - $40
2x Thunderbolt fighter - unpainted, assembled - $40
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one has broken wing glued back on - $35
2x Lightning fighter - TT painted thinly, one is missing a tail fin - $30

which is exactly what i copy and pasted to him and referred to them as flyers.
As for the pricing. Not 2 months ago i bought about 3,000 pts of Imperial Guard for $300 in Bartertown. It is not unheard of to get amazing deals here THAT is why i come here and i assume that's why most come here aswell. So no I wasn't overly suspicious furthermore the CLOSE UP pic of that nightwing when compared to the Forgeworld who would be able to tell the difference unless they knew that there was a tiny tiny hotwheels version of it around?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-4 ... TWING.html

I have no problem shipping the box unopened right back to him at my own expense. But i want a full refund of my $200.

Anyone can surely tell from the second pic that these are NOT 40k planes, the one and only pic he sent me takes prior knowledge that is not common knowledge. And I asked him for full disclosure and tried to ascertain that these were legit 40k flyers.

He even backed out of a deal with someone else to sell me the Eldar "flyers" and according to him i am to blame for that aswell.

I don't think so.

Akaiyou ( 32 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Akaiyou » Thu May 21, 2015 10:53 pm

Also there is an aeronautica in Forgeworld that I and i'd guess most 40k players ARE familiar with

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-4 ... UTICA.html

references to aeronautica imperialis are not widely known. I've asked several people all day today that are familiar with 40k if they have heard or seen aeronautica imperialis, no one that i know of has, or they think I am referring to the imperial armour book for flyers. If you are selling a car for $200, and someone buys it for $200 and doesn't haggle you over it because they assume they are getting a great deal, but ask you for full disclosure before buying, and then you send them a hotwheels car after purchase. They will most def ask to get their money back lest they actually wanted a $200 hotwheels car.

Sinjin ( 180 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: New York

Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Sinjin » Thu May 21, 2015 11:12 pm

I have an idea that MIGHT work.

Akaiyou, since you didn't open the box, you MIGHT be able to go to the post office and RTS...Return To Sender. Tell them the situation, and they might let you RTS, which would get it back to Gav99 without you have to pay at all. You wouldn't get any kind of receipt, so you would have to wait until he received it to get the refund, but then you would only be out shipping once, not twice.

also, Akaiyou I just checked your entire thread, and not once did you call them 40k ANYTHING. How is he supposed to know you wanted 40k stuff? He clearly labeled them as what they were, even sent you pictures. And you claim he should have known that you wanted 40k fliers when you NEVER say 40k in any of your posts? Should he have also told you they weren't for Dystopian Wars? and X-Wing? and Micro Armor and ..... You get the point. He told you what they WERE, he can't tell you everything they are NOT.

Gav99 ( 546 )
Expert Trader
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:29 pm
Location: York, PA

Re: BTR - Gav99 [Scammer]

Post by Gav99 » Thu May 21, 2015 11:35 pm

I didn't back out of any deal. A sale is final when I receive payment and not until, so if it's not paid for yet then I'm not backing out of a closed deal.

Secondly, I referred to them as Epic because you knew what epic was and seemed to be having an issue with me calling them AI minis as you said you'd never heard of it. At this point you were still accusing me of sending you an empty box, so I was trying to show you why it weighs very little and the box is small, so epic was a good size reference. Probably a mistake on my part because it started you out on a crusade to nail me up for even saying it.

Again you're missing the whole point that you misread my listing and only focused on the points you wanted to. They are clearly listed as AI, the photo was of AI (they lack most of the detail from the FW 40K one you listed, and those AI bases would be HUGE if the nightwing was 28mm!). Again you push all the blame at me suggesting that I lied to you and made you think they were 40K. This is why I refuse to deal with you anymore via PM because you're contorting everything into something that wasn't remotely said and picking and choosing bits to make further confusingly put together arguments that have nothing to do with the fact that you misread my post.

The facts stand:
You assumed they were 40K because you failed to read the heading and didn't bother to look up Aeronautica Imperialis. You can't blame me for this, you approached me.
You dealt with me as if you knew what they were. Never once did you ask me what AI is, nor did you ever mention 40K. I can't read your mind so how was I to know you ignored everything around the list.
We struck a deal for AI flyers as listed on my thread. I packaged and shipped them out to you. You received them (in good order I would assume, but you still say it's an empty box and refuse to open and check) and then you accuse me of scamming you.
I offer you a refund after returning the items (minus shipping and fees, because this was your error) and you spit that back at me demanding a full refund and now throwing anything together you can to try and prove that I lied to you, when at no time have I lied or blurred the truth.
You've wasted my time, accused me of everything under the sun from scammer, to liar, to being unfair, and now you persist in trying to twist anything I say to find fault even though it has no difference on the initial sale agreement negotiation. This bit was cut and dry with you asking for the items, me double-confirming with you about the missing bits and sending a photo of the missing fins as you requested, and then you saying you'd take them. None of this can be spun by you to mean something else and this is all that matters in showing where fault lies.

Both of us have been annoyed with eachother over PM, and both of us, from frustration, have said a lot of things that the other sees as wrong. This happens a lot in a heated argument. This would be the only place that I could be at fault (I should re-read my posts made in frustration), but that is nothing to do with our sale negotiation so has no weight against what happened during the sale.

So you can either keep it for what you paid, or you can return it for the money minus shipping and fees. I am not being out of pocket for your error. A store would do the exact same thing. If you had come to me about this in a reasonable manner to begin with then I may have agreed to what you are demanding, but you have been disrespectful, rude, dishonest, and just plain nasty. I have every right to not be out of pocket in this case.
Trading on Dakkadakka under the same name.

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