BTR - Siegebeast2142 - Resolved by USPS, not Siegebeast2142

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Cyx ( 24 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

BTR - Siegebeast2142 - Resolved by USPS, not Siegebeast2142

Post by Cyx » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:53 am

Hello,

First and foremost I want to say that I made a mistake by not disclosing that some of the models in question had green stuff used in their assembly. This is my fault as I did not inspect them closely enough after receiving them from someone I know locally.

I am a rather new trader on bartertown and in regard to trading miniatures through the mail in general. I made a mistake and believe I may have been taken advantage of due to my negligence. I would always prefer to not spend my time doing things of this nature (posting a BTR), and even just typing this up seems petty. But I would rather this not happen to someone else.

No definitive accusations are being made. But at this point I believe that I should notify the bartertown community with a BTR, and any recourse other than my posting a bad reference can be handled by the moderators.

If anymore pictures or anything else is needed please let me know and I will be more than happy to comply if possible.

The first message was sent Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:23 am to me from Siegebeast. And the last message (at the time of writing the BTR) was Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:32 pm from Siegebeast. The following is the entirety of our correspondence. Short explanations, pictures and evidence to support are at the bottom.


Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:23 am
by Siegebeast2142

I have a tomb kings battalion box, it's an older one that comes with bows for the skeletons. It's nib except for 1 skeleton I assembled as an archer. I'd like to trade it for Be'lakor, the Khorne Herald on Juggernaut, and the flesh hounds.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:06 am
by Cyx


Hello,

I am interested in the battalion box. But do you happen to have anything else for trade, or want the other daemons? Mostly just trying to get rid of them as lots like I mentioned in the post.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:08 am
by Siegebeast2142


Oh, I didn't see that sorry. I just did I quick search. I play the khorne daemon in codex, so I don't even have the option to use any of the other daemons. If you are willing to break apart all of the khorne models and be'lakor, which would be skull taker and karanak ($44.50), I don't have anything else on your wants list, but i'd be willing to throw in about $20 depending on condition.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:18 am
by Siegebeast2142


actually, karanak can't be taken in the khorne daemonkin codex, so I'd only be interested in skull taker. If you'd be willing to part out, I could throw in $10 for skull taker.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:52 am
by Cyx


Yeah, I don't want to part out man, sorry. Thank you though.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:57 pm
by Siegebeast2142

How much cash for the entire lot then, including the tomb kings box?

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:18 pm
by Cyx

So it's the older one, but still has the 40 warriors, 3 chariots, and 8 horsemen right?

Retail for what I have is
$80 for the grinder
60 for the hounds
50 juggernaught
35 ddaemonettes
30 karanak
30 skull taker
30 fiend
30 beast
19 masque
Can't find belabor on the website but I'd say 50 since he's a bigger model

So maybe ~414 retail, and even though battalion box is older Id say it's 125 retail. I'm mostly trying to get rid of this stuff too, so I'd say the box + $140 which is less than 50% retail

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:33 pm
by Siegebeast2142


The box says it comes with 32 Skeleton Warriors armed with bows, spears, or hand weapon and shield, 3 skeleton chariots and 8 skeleton horsemen w/bows or spears and shields.

Be'lakor is $38 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/sea ... be%27lakor

Soul Grinder is $66 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/sea ... ul+grinder

Karanak and Skull Taker are $22.25 each http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... ns-Karanak & http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... Skulltaker

Masque is $16, but that's not as far off as the others http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... The-Masque

Beast is $25 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... -of-Nurgle

Deamonettes are $30 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... f-Slaanesh

Herald on Juggernaut is $40 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... -of-Khorne

Fiend is $25 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... nesh-1-40K

Hounds are $50 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... -of-Khorne

Depending on how the pictures look, I could be okay with throwing in $100.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:34 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Could you send pictures to hookerc@usa.com please?

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:50 pm
by Cyx


Sent the pics, not sure why it was off so much. I swear it said those next to them on the site.

Any way here are the pics again

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image[/quote]


Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:56 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Yea, that looks fine. does $100 with the battalion box sound acceptable?

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:06 pm
by Cyx

I like to barter and haggle a bit, so please don't be offended.

But since it's the older battalion box, how about $110, and you pay shipping. But I'll ship first without anything due to the lower rating.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:28 pm
by Siegebeast2142


I can do $105, which gets us exactly to 50% retail, better than your original percentile offer. But I can not pay shipping for both of us. You pay yours, I'll pay mine, and I'll send the $105 inside of the battalion box in a small envelope.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:35 pm
by Cyx

Alright, deal then if you're in the US.

Will try to get it out next week after work. USPS closes at 5 and I get off at 4, so I'll have to see if I can get out early one day.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:41 pm
by Siegebeast2142

Sounds good!

Shipping enough:

CJ Hooker
3014 N Willow RD
Spokane Valley, WA 99206

yours? I'll get everything packaged up and ready to ship out.

Sent: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:38 pm
by Cyx


Thanks man

Charles miller
[Admin Edit - MM]

Sent: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:08 pm
by Cyx


Hey, just an update. I forgt I get tomorrow off as a holiday, so I'll likely be shipping tomorrow.

Sent: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:08 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Awesome, thanks for letting me know!

Sent: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:12 pm
by Cyx


No problem, man. Figured I would keep you apprised.

Sent: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:07 pm
by Cyx

Arrival says monday 4/6

Tracking # 9534 6110 9901 5090 5052 71

Sent: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:46 pm
by Siegebeast2142

Hey, I got the models today. They all arrived pretty well. My biggest problem with them though is that the metal models were put together with green stuff in the sockets. The beast, the heralds, and be'lakor are all put together like that. That's $125 of the models. Instead of 50% retail for them, I'd be fine paying 25% retail for them, or sending them back. I wish you had mentioned the green stuff fillings :( So instead of 105, I'd be sending $50.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:25 am
by Siegebeast2142


I was looking at pictures on GW's site, and I noticed that the model that I thought was the herald on Juggernaut was a Fiend of Slannesh. There is no herald on juggernaut model.

The other option I'd like to propose is not sending any money, and shipping back Karanak, the fiend, the beast, masque and daemonettes with the tomb kings, and calling that a fair trade. That's $126 of models for 125 in the battle box.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:50 am
by Cyx


This is the newest model as they just came out with new stuff as I'm sure you know.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... id=2965668

There was a fiend of slaanesh AND the Khorne herald on juggernaught. Further, I don't remotely consider the green stuff that much of a problem, and while I didn't mention it I didn't think I had to. If it was that much of a problem (25% worth) then you should have explicitly asked.

Just send the entire package back.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:55 am
by Cyx


In addition, I expect them to be packed the same way I packed them and in the mail by the end of tuesday. I feel this is an adequate amount of time, if there is something pressing preventing you from doing this, let me know now. And I double bubble wrapped eveeything and added a second layer of large bubble wrap on top. Nothing should be broken or bent whatsoever

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:56 am
by Siegebeast2142


I'll send you pictures of how I got the models, Karanak has his two extra heads broken off, and the fiend fell apart in transit. Like I said, I'll take pictures. One wing and the hand with the ax fell off be'lakor, but I've glued those back on.

The only reason why it's a big problem is because of how sloppiply it was done, and how many points that costs in a paint score. When you have green/blue stuff bulging out of the gaps where pieces glue together, that isn't nice or professional looking. When models have defects like that, it is on the person who has them to mention them, not the person getting them to ask about it. People would have thousand word PM's asking about all the different things about the model they want, instead of the person getting rid of them saying everything they deviated from with standard assembling.

Now, to make sure that I understand you right, you want to completely cancel the trade, instead of accepting one of the other offers I mentioned, correct? Instead of getting the tomb kings and most of your models back, you just want all of your models back?

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:15 pm
by Cyx


Thank you, pictures will be fine.

And I completely understand that, I got these second hand. If I were to keep them rather than get rid of them I would have just removed the green stuff when I noticed it. Also, they're not even primed, even with the green stuff 50% is more than fair. Of course you could find better deals, but that's even more on the cheap side from my experience asking about prices on this site.

It's on me that I didn't inspect them that well, but as bad as it is, the pictures would have shown that as well. I'm willing to work with you, but certainly not dropping 1/4 of the trade simply because of some green stuff that you can fix in less than an hour or two.

Yes, I only want to get rid off all of this at once. Which is why the stuff that was paid cash for was 50% retail. If I just got some of them back then I would still have to spend more time trying to find someone who wants them.

I'd be willing to accept the battalion box and $90, but nothing less. That's about 42% retail which is more than fair for bare metal assembled pieces that haven't been so much as primed.

Otherwise I'm willing to pay half of shipping ($4.5 since I paid $9) to send it back.

Also, were you saying that you didn't receive the khorn herald on juggernaught? Because that was most definitely sent with everything else.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:28 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Correct, there is NO herald of Khorne on a juggernaut. The model that I thought was the herald was a Fiend of Slannesh. That was the only thing missing from the box. With the missing herald, and the few hours of extra work to remove superglued green stuff, and keeping all of the models, I'd be willing to send you no more than $65.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:56 pm
by Cyx


That's highly unlikely in my opinion. I'm 100% confident that the herald was included. It's a bloodletter riding a juggernaught. It was in the box when shipped. I'm not going to short anyone anything, that's ridiculous. Everything in the pictures INCLUDING the herald was shipped in the box.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:59 pm
by Cyx


Just to make it perfectly clear, this is the pictre I orginally sent as well. That model on the right of the bloodletter riding a juggernaught wasn't in the box?

Image

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:24 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Correct. That models was not in the box. All of metal parts that broke off of pieces have been assigned to the model they came from. There wasn't even a left over bloodletter sword in the box or anything.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:27 pm
by Cyx


Then we have a problem, because it was most certainly included in the box. I don't have so much as a single daemon bit as that was the last of it. I remember the items I put bubble wrap around, and that was definitely one of them. When I get home I will go through wverything thoroughly despite the fact I'm damn sure it was included.

How was the box when you received it and did you take pictures when you opened it?

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:49 pm
by Siegebeast2142


The box had one piece of tape in the middle of both side flaps on the bottom. No, I didn't take any pictures of it before I opened it.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:53 pm
by Cyx


I am NOT accusing you whatsoever. But to be perfectly honest I think it's more likely that someone would want a free model than usps opening and taking a model out.

Take this as acknowledgement that I'm filing a claim with usps and using your posts as affirmation of non receipt.

And it should have had one across the top and 2 across horizontally.

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:06 pm
by Siegebeast2142


From my point of view, it's much more likely that someone mispacked than USPS took a free model. Regardless, shall I send $65 and the Battallion box out on Monday to fulfill my end of the trade?

Sent: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:11 pm
by Cyx


Please hold off and let me contact usps tomorrow to see what they would prefer we do. But I am not comfortable with just receiving $65 and the battalion box for what I sent you.

And I completely agree I would as well if I was in your shoes. Which is why I said I wasn't accusing you, as there's no evidence one way or the other yet.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:48 am
by Cyx


Please take pictures of everything you received, including pictures of all sides of the box.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:32 am
by Cyx


After taking pictures of the box, please send it back to me via USPS with a signature required. Just use the bubble wrap that was already included to protect the models, please.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:33 pm
by Siegebeast2142

So you are cancelling the trade?

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:33 pm
by Siegebeast2142


So you are cancelling the trade?

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:00 pm
by Cyx


No, if you would like to send me 90$ (-$15 for the green stuff) and the battalion box for what I sent (Daemonettes, karanak, hounds, herald, masque, belakor, soulgrinder, fiend, and beast) then please go ahead.

If not, then please send ALL of my models back via usps with signature.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:02 pm
by Cyx


And skulltaker, I forgot him off of the list I just sent.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:09 pm
by Cyx

In addition, you havent acknowledged my request of pictures of the box and contents you received.

If you truly did not receive a model then it's imperative you do this.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:48 pm
by Siegebeast2142

My time is more valuable than than $5 an hour for just the active repairs. On top of that, I have to get high grade stripper in order to be able to even remove the green stuff. $65 is more than fair, especially considering the missing $40 model.


Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:50 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Without divulging things in my personal life that I rather not share with someone as hostile as you, I will get you the pictures as promptly as I can.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:53 pm
by Cyx


The $40 model would mean subtracting $20 from the trade. And you don't need that, work smarter not harder. Can be done with a file or ordinary modeling knife/tool. That's beside the point though, i obviously have a huge problem with this because I sent you something that you're saying you didn't receive.

If you happen to have "found" the other model and what to do the original trade of $105 or $90 and the tomb Kings battalion box then that's fine.

Otherwise I'm not getting what we agreed on and what I sent out.

And still I ask, please send pictures of the box as you received it.


Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:55 pm
by Cyx


I think hostile is definitely an exaggeration. Aggressive maybe considering either way I'm likely out a model, regardless of the reason.

But thank you nonetheless


Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:56 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Also, should you insist on anything more than $65, and have me send your models back, I'll need $15 sent by PayPal to ship your models back to you priority flat rate with signature confirmation, as you requested. This is non negotiable. You failed to mention a defect with your models which put us in this situation, and by telling me to send them back, you aren't reasonably trying to salvage this. I'm not taking any sort of monetary hit on a mistake YOU made.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:27 pm
by Cyx


First, let's get this straight. The issue is that a model is missing, not the green stuff. I'm more than willing to work around that with you. Because as you pointed out it is my fault for not disclosing it. I didn't carefully inspect the items but I still supplied pictures. If it was this big of an issue then you most certainly should have inquired about the green stuff on the belakor model that's quite obvious in the picture (after having now gone back to look at how "bad" the green stuff was several times). Something accidentally not being mentioned is not a big issue. Missing an entire ~$50 model is.

I will absolutely not take a $35 hit ($90 to $65) and lose my model that I know for a fact II sent. I had it with the other models and distinctly remember each item I packed since it wasn't very many any way. 42% for those models is MORE than fair regardless of any green stuff issue outside of converting thing (which none of the models had).. I have tried to salvage this, but I refuse to not get what I'm owed when I held up my side and sent every model we agreed upon.

First, please provide pictures of the box when you can
Then, let me know when you'll be at usps and get an estimate of the price and send me a picture of the print out. I will PayPal you the money then and there. Or take a picture of the receipt and I'll send you that exact amount.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:36 pm
by Cyx


Excuse me, $25 hit, not $35. Was typingtoo quickly.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:45 pm
by Siegebeast2142


After doing some math, the $65 I'm asking for is only $5 less than what you say I should pay. You said you would deduct $15 for the green stuff, and the missing model is $20 (after the 50% reduction). Added together that is $35. $105-$35=$70. Since this is what you have offered anyways, is $70 okay with you? If not, then I'll send the models back at your expense. Pictures of box/received items coming shortly.

Secondly, read bartertown rules. It is on YOU to tell ME about the status of your models, what condition they are in, and any defects. It is not on ME to ask YOU.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:55 pm
by Cyx


I did, I told you that they were assembled and bare metal. And then supplied pictures that were more than sufficient for figuring out if they interested you. Either of us could have helped the situation. I, by being more thorough. Or you, by asking for more pictures at any point or if green stuff was used.

No where in the link from the "bartertown rules" thread does it edplicitly state I'm required to say that green stuff is present. They were not converted, and you're right I should have looked closer. But this is not a big issue at all and I've been more than willing to work with you on this. Also, a pragmatic use of "defect" is incredibly subjective. It wasn't defective (or its defective as soon as it's off the sprue), it had some green stuff. After looking at the pictures several time it's not even remotely as bad as you make it out to be either.

And absolutely not, it STILL doesn't account for my missing model that I sent you.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:59 pm
by Siegebeast2142


I'll need your email address to send you pictures.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:01 pm
by Cyx

Chazzy77@gmail.com

Or you could just use the forum tools to post the links here.

Or you could use an image hosting site that gives you the formatted links for forums

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:03 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Any sort of green stuff spilling out from assembly points is "defective" because 1: It looks unproffessional 2: It subtracts waaaay too many points in any sort of competitive tournament where painting is not only a requirement, but part of your overall score 3: It says you are required to fully describe your models. Not mentioning something is effectively the same as saying it isn't there.

Now, about this issue with what I'm sending you back. Are you willing to take $70 and the battalion box?


Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:04 pm
by Siegebeast2142


email sent.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:13 pm
by Cyx


I already said absolutely not. I'm still losing $24.25 (the model is $48.50 not $40 as you keep saying).

I will only accept the battalion box and $90. I've said this several times.

...yet it also mentions that once a deal is made it's done. It would have been on you to check or ask for more pictures at that point if you had in fact received all models. This is not a you problem, it's a problem for both of us. I'm out a $48.50 model and you have no commitment to this and no risk whatsoever except getting a better deal.

Also, if it is "spilling from assembly points", then you could see it in the pictures. I only have the pictures to reference, and it's not that bad at all. Not to mention we've been over this, I'd be willing to compensate by dropping from 105 to 90 for the time it would take to remove. (Less than an hour). By just using a pick or knife on the outside there is minimal chance to damage the model and you can remove ALL of the green stuff from sight. The only difference would be at MAX 1-2mm of extra length in some areas. Or you could unassemble the model at places and remove the green stuff all together.

That's why the models would be priced at 40-50% retail, because of that extra work.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:17 pm
by Siegebeast2142


http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cha ... -of-Khorne

Games Workshop disagrees with you... This is my second time posting the link. I'm not going to pay for a model that I didn't receive.

Very well. I'll send your models back at your expense. $15 sent to hookerc@usa.com

That will cover flat rate medium box, plus the signature confirmation.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:17 pm
by Cyx


The pictures were inadequate. Only the last one actually showed up. I cannot view the rest as they are in a format I don't have access to. Just simply post the links to the image hosting site. If you simply wanted to embed the pictures (which it looks like you tried to do) then you could have sent them on this site. They prefer everything to be done through this site, so I'm not sure why you would prefer to use emails.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:20 pm
by Siegebeast2142


The files are too big to fit here. Right click on the picture and click open with windows viewer or equivalent.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:22 pm
by Cyx


http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Cha ... of-Khorne#

For whatever reason mine keeps defaulting to Canadian.

You can get an estimate with no expense to you, take a picture and email it to me. I'm not going to send MORE items or money to someone when I have nothing to show for it.

So why would you expect me to give away a model for free?

Please send the pictures so they can actually be viewed.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:28 pm
by Cyx


Obviously you can do it, email the pictures as you did the last one.

I have apple software on my phone and windows on my laptop. Regardless of what I use i am unable to view the pictures.

I have downloaded them and used every type of picture viewer I have. They are not showing up.

Just post the link to the pictures. That does not require using any specific size and you can easily opt to make folders private/public on most free imaging hosting sites.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:31 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Then click on US, and then search for herald of Khorne. It's $40. I don't know why the hell you'd choose Canada for your location in GW's site instead of Cali, where you get your mail.

Total for flat medium box priority shipping and signature confirmation is $15:55! Good thing you had me check, I'd be out 55 cents!!!!!!!!!! ERMYGERDNERDRAAAAAAAGE!!!!!

So, after paypal fees are accounted for, I need you to send $16.32 to my paypal.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:59 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Resent.

Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:54 pm
by Cyx


Received

Shows 12.65 from your zip code to mine.

Image

I'll respond tomorrow as I can't finish discussing this tonight.


Sent: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:02 pm
by Siegebeast2142


That does not include the signature confirmation.

Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:08 am
by Cyx


Sent

Also, if you actually read what I wrote, it says it defaults to Canada. I've never set it to Canada and don't go on the website enough to be familiar with whether or not you can set a permanent country for your device. I do find it humorous that you called me hostile and then make slight insults, though. At least be upfront about it, haha.

I would rather get the amount right any way. I'd rather not have to spend more time dealing with you in the future. And since I'm "hostile", let me be more clear. Thats not a shot at your character, but the fact that I'm losing a model has made me apprehensive towards dealing with you, and trading models in general.

Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:29 am
by Siegebeast2142


You see, this is where I'm apprehensive about dealing with you, specifically. You have this weird all or nothing mentality. You expect me to pay for a model that I don't have, citing your perfect memory as proof that you did send it. You say you just want to get rid of your daemons for models you will use. Another simple answer would have been sticking to the original amount, but you buying a new herald on juggernaut and you shipping it to me. But, that would have "cost" you more than you would have "lost".

Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:58 am
by Cyx


Let me know when you have sent the box, please include everything you received in the box. And if you like, video record you actually packing up the box.


It's not "misplaced" and I don't have a "perfect memory". What I do know is what I packed, the last of the daemons I acquired. I don't have tons for miniatures stuff not do I live in a mess. I no longer have the model and I remember packing it. Therefore I can say I'm confident that it was in the box.

It's not an all or nothing mentality, it's that I'm not going to give you a discount and be shorted by an entire model.

Honestly if I can prove you didn't remove the model yourself then I'd have no problem with it whatsoever. What I can't understand is that you're fighting for models that you apparently don't want unless they're heavily discounted because of "green stuff". This has been at absolutely no cost to you other than time. With these transactions online you're bound to waste time at some point and sometimes deals don't work out. But you haven't actually had to buy or trade anything.

If I was you and really feel I was shorted a model intentionally then I wouldn't want to trade with that person, period. Hence why I'm paying over 50% retail of the model in question in shipling to get my other models back. I would rather pay that then possibly have to deal with you further and have possible problems with what you sent me.

Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:20 am
by Siegebeast2142


Honestly if I can prove you didn't remove the model yourself then I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.


If this is the way you are going to deal with this kind of problem with others *when*, not if, this happens, you aren't going to like the responses from the community. Do you have any proof that you packed the model? The fact is it is missing.

Sent: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:17 am
by Cyx


I really don't think this is as common as you implied with your previous message, insinuating that it isn't likely but will most certainly happen again. Careless mistakes happen, this is not one of them.

By accepting a new deal I'm basically acceding that I'm at fault, and I'm not. I would most certainly rather just start from scratch. Which is the whole reason I don't mind spending the 50% retail price in shipping just to get my stuff MINUS a model back.

It's incredibly likely that I'm just SOL and won't get my model back. YOU'RE the one that's not getting the full end of the deal that we agreed on. It's on me that it's missing. I agree that the burden of proof is on me because I don't have video of me packing the box.

Either way we're just going in circles. Let me know when you've sent the box

Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:09 am
by Cyx


Have you received the money and sent the package?

Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:32 pm
by Siegebeast2142


Shipped. tracking number: 23121870000010374560. Signature Confirmation. I have box weight recorded, and video of me putting items in. Please make sure you note box weight when package arrives, and record yourself removing item for verification.

Sent: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:08 pm
by Cyx


I most certainly will, thank you.


Original Post

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=254363

My Interpretation/Account

So I wanted to trade my daemons for Siegebeast's TK battalion box and $105. Since I was a lower rating I shipped first. They arrived in a condition that was different from what the recipient expected. The original pictures are below, and while you can't see the extent of how much green stuff is used, it's still not visible in a lot of areas. So I believe that a least raises some suspicion about his exaggeration regarding how much green stuff was used. In addition a whole model (herald of khorne on juggernaught ~$40) was missing.

If a whole model had not been missing, I would have been more than happy to negotiate a new deal with me taking less cash. As that isn't possible in that situation (since both parties would feel the deal is unfair), no deal could be made. And if I hadn't received the box with a significantly less weight I wouldn't have posted a BTR or taken any action. But that is not the case.

I opted to have him send me the daemons back and pay for shipping with a signature. As of now I have paid a TOTAL of $24.17 in shipping. Which is 60% of the model's retail value. Obviously interpretations of personality are always subjective. But, I would not spend the money I stand to earn from the model in addition to my time just to spite someone or cover up something surreptitious. Such as purposely not including a model.

I have received all the daemons back except the herald of khorne on a juggernaught. I sent the daemonettes in a large plastic blister container, the soulgrinder assembled parts loose in the box, the souldgrinder spures on the bottom, the flesh hounds on a longe sheet on bubblewrap 2 next to eachother rolled over with another 2 then placed, and ALL other models wrapped in bubblewrap.

Everything was received lumped together in the large sheet of bubblewrap and left to be bent/broken in transit. 4 of the smaller clear scraps of bubblewrap were not included. But considering the largest piece (3 or 4 times the size of the scraps) is .2 oz, this weight is not significant. The smaller ones weighed no more than .8oz combined (if as big as the pieced weighed, which they weren't). And in addition he included a brown lunch paper bag that weighs .6oz that I did not include. All of which the pictures below support. Just trying to include as much information as possible here.

The important part: I sent a package out at 2lbs 10.2oz and received a package that weighed 2lbs 7oz. The pictures I have support this. In addition I am required to file a claim with usps in order to get a formal receipt for weight. Once I have that I will upload it.

The package never entered my hands, it was sent with a signature and since I was at work I had to pick it up myself. Once I picked up the package I immediately weighed it at usps, where I took a picture of the box. In addition there is an unedited video, that was not paused, of myself opening the box when I actually got home. Since the picture of the box being weighed at usps may not be sufficient for proving that it was actually shipped at 2lbs 7oz (which his receipt could verify/disprove), I will be contacting usps to get a formal statement saying it was received at 2lbs 7oz. But it is pretty apparent from the video and pictures that the tape is the same on the edges/corner from when I weighed it and when I opened it.

Considering the herald of khorne on juggernaught was a metal model, the skulltaker model was weighed for comparison. If someone has the weight of the herald, that would help. But skulltaker weighs 3oz (picture below), so I would imagine the herald weighs about 2.5-3.5oz. Around the weight that was missing from the package when it was returned.

I'm not saying this proves he took it. I'm saying it proves that it wasn't included when I sent him the package. And that it's disappearance was out of my control. Coupled with the pictures from a usps worker in the WA facility (of the package when it was scanned by the machine) and the fact it wasn't damaged at all when it arrived leaves little guesswork in my opinion.

It is unlikely that I will get my model back or receive any compensation for this loss. I believe the outcome should be decided by bartertown, and I will comply.

For me, at the very least nothing should happen to me and I'm still short a model, while the worst would be a BAD reference on my account saying I did not disclose information about green stuff.
For Siegebeast, at the least I should be allowed to post a bad reference for Siegebeast2142. At the worst, he should not be allowed to trade on bartertown anymore.

Please let me know if anything else is needed.


USPS receipt when sent

Image

Image
screen capture

Image

Image

http://postimg.org/image/u9sm36ufn/
http://postimg.org/image/m1q6ba93n/
http://postimg.org/image/5cp8ma5xv/
http://postimg.org/image/eyit2kx3n/

Picture of package being weighed at usps

[Admin edit - Images removed for privacy (visible address)]

http://postimg.org/image/p7as1hrpv/
http://postimg.org/image/7mcuq4lg3/

Weighing of additional paper

Image
Image
http://postimg.org/image/knz1mw39v/
http://postimg.org/image/knz1mw39v/

Weighing of the contents without the paper bag
[Admin edit - Images removed for privacy (visible address)]

http://postimg.org/image/8v0qbrdeb/
http://postimg.org/image/4954ablar/

Pictures of box before opening


Image
[Admin edit - Images removed for privacy (visible address)]

http://postimg.org/image/6ua6qxh8z/
http://postimg.org/image/uzaw8n1jn/
http://postimg.org/image/3r9gnk2ab/
http://postimg.org/image/h9gczuefn/
http://postimg.org/image/6cf1b2ro3/

Video of opening
note: I used tinypic for this because all my pictures were already on postimage.org, but they don't host videos. I had to upload it from my computer as it wasn't working with my phone, so it's in 2 parts which overlap pretty heavily. But the entire video could not be sent at once. I still have the full video on my phone and will continue to upload it as one video.

View My Video
View My Video

http://tinypic.com/m/ivabmt/2
http://tinypic.com/m/ivabmw/2


Pictures of box from usps facility

[Admin edit - Images removed for privacy (visible address)]

http://postimg.org/image/57lhclymr/
http://postimg.org/image/wseb3vg5v/
http://postimg.org/image/4tk5d0ej7/

Pictures of bubblewrap weighing

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http://postimg.org/image/acra7z0yb/


Skulltaker weight


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http://postimg.org/image/acra7z0yb/

Original daemon pictures

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Cyx ( 24 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:26 am

Here is the skulltaker picture that was erroneously omitted.

Image

http://postimg.org/image/itqsiw5n7/

And I have since sent this message.

Sent: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:56 pm
by Cyx

I received the package.

And I am now informing you that I started a request post in the BTR forum in order to leave a bad reference for you.

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=255481

regards,
Cyx

Moonfang22 ( 14 )
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Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Moonfang22 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:03 am

He just posted a backout on you. He seems like a terrible person to engage in trades with and to be honest, I think he took that model out of his side of the deal and is just looking to get a better deal out of it by saying it's "missing". You should have read his resolved BTR before trading with him. Just from that resolved one, he seems like a total schemer.

Cyx ( 24 )
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Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:55 pm

And it's the first one in the resolved forum. I was completely unaware, thank you.

Once I have permission to post a bad reference, could a mod please edit the post and remove any personal information? The emails, names addresses and pictures if possible.

Neian ( 156 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:17 am
Location: Knightdale, NC

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Neian » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:09 pm

Cyx,

Couple Questions:

1. Does the your original receipt show that the package shipped from you weighted 2lbs 10.2 oz and the package you received back weighted 2 lbs 7 oz?
2. CJ agreed to ship your package back to you in the original shipping material/box?

Having played 40K / Fantasy for 10+ years I can say that the green stuff that I can see from the pictures is very common assembly technique IMHO. Unless there are angles that show it being in much worse condition from what is presently on the thread.
People who owe me Trade refs:
Diesell117

Trade Rules:

1. Lower Rating Ships First
2. Payment expected before shipment. I only accept and pay through PayPal.
3. Please communicate. If you don't like my offer just say "no thanks" and I will do the same.
4. If there is no communications after 24 hours then consider our trade/sell, null and void
5. Any delays or changes in when something will ship will be communicated in a timely manner, I EXPECT the same!

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16342
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:46 pm

[Admin hat on]

People! Seriously!
We don't need input on how bad a person seems, your opinion on him or what is or is not considered normal in model assembly.

This. Is. A. Bad. Trader. Report. Your input is NOT welcome, if it is not DIRECTLY related to the BTR itself.
There are rules here. Read them.


@Cyx:
You don't need permission to post a negative reference. If you feel it was deserved, then leave it. If Siegebeast disagrees with your assessment, we have procedures that will allow him to refute it.
The ONLY information we're willing to remove from a BTR is YOUR personal information (address and/or phone #). Everything else stays.
Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Cyx ( 24 )
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Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:32 pm

-MagickalMemories-

Ah, thank you. I was unsure when reading the rules and thought it better to err on the safe side. I will indeed post a bad reference about him today with a link to this thread.

Thank you for the edit. I figured it would be best to supply all of the information and have the rest taken out for privacy after the matter was resolved. Once this issue is resolved I will request that the pictures with addresses etc. be taken out at that time.

For an update; I have filed a claim with usps and will go into the office this week. I was informed that when I go into the office I can get a "product tracking report" by showing my ID, which will have a formal statement for the weight of the package when received (in Spokane, WA). As only my local office has this, I will need to actually go into the usps location.

Is there anything else you can think of that I might be able to help with regarding this matter?

-Neian-

1. Yes, the receipts with the 3/31/15 date show this.
2. I'm not 100% confident that he explicitly stated he would. But I asked and he complied. The box is the same one I used, along with all the same bubblewrap other than 4 smaller pieces and the addition of the brown paper bag.




Further, I may be deserving of the deadbeat thread. But if it is found that I am not, is there any recourse for having it closed? I feel like if there wasn't a missing model then it wouldn't have been a problem. And that it also wasn't an egregious error of the magnitude he purports it to be.

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:39 pm

Cyx wrote:Thank you for the edit. I figured it would be best to supply all of the information and have the rest taken out for privacy after the matter was resolved. Once this issue is resolved I will request that the pictures with addresses etc. be taken out at that time.
I have already removed everything from your BTR that we will be willing to remove. Unless he is found NOT to be at fault, his information and the pics will remain. If he's found NOT to be at fault, the whole thread will be removed, so it won't matter in the end.
Cyx wrote:Further, I may be deserving of the deadbeat thread. But if it is found that I am not, is there any recourse for having it closed? I feel like if there wasn't a missing model then it wouldn't have been a problem. And that it also wasn't an egregious error of the magnitude he purports it to be.
If we determine that you didn't earn it, the whole thread will be removed. You won't have to worry about having it closed.


Also... the extra paper and bubble wrap... Did you weigh them separately? Without them, the difference in the SENT vs RECEIVED weights would be even greater.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Cyx ( 24 )
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Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:14 pm

- MM -

Alright, thank you. And should I bother weighing in on anything in the DB/BO thread or just stay out of it?

Bubble wrap - http://postimg.org/image/acra7z0yb/

0.2 oz for a very large piece of bubble wrap. What was missing were 4 pieces much less than a quarter or the piece I weighed. Even if they had been as large as that piece it would account for .8oz. Not even discussing the paper bag, that leaves 2.4 oz unaccounted for.

Paper bag - http://postimg.org/image/knz1mw39v/

0.6oz for the paper bag that was included and empty. Even if we entirely discount this, there is still a 2.4oz discrepancy unaccounted for.

All in all he packed everything I packed other than the missing model and 4 pieces of bubble wrap. The plastic blister, items still on sprue, and largest pieces of bubble wrap were still included. And the only extra was the paper bag.

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
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Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:04 am

Thank you for being so concise. It makes for a decent and PROPER BTR.
Many experienced traders who've posted these could learn from your thoroughness.

As for the Backout; it's about YOU, so you DEFINITELY have a right to weigh in (as Siegebeast has a right to weigh in here). Just make sure it's non-argumentative. Disagreements or not, we don't stand for these things becoming a flame-fest.

Thanks.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Cyx ( 24 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Well thank you. I'm hoping it's enough as there isn't a lot more I can provide.

Alright, I'll go give my opinion as well then. And I'll definitely refrain from starting an argument.



I went to the post office yesterday, but there were about 40 people in line 10 minutes before it closed. To be perfectly honest I just turned around. I'll try to get the official weight print out again today.

Cyx ( 24 )
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Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:17 pm

Update:

I've been busy both in my professional and personal life. But I've tried to make some headway on this issue. USPS has given me the runaround a bit, and I'm finding it hard to get a definitive "formal" print out of the weigh from them. When I go to the local office they say they don't have the ability to do this, and when I call they either say someone will call me back and they don't, or that they aren't sure if they can even provide this.

Or the person that sent the package back could always upload a photo of their receipt.

Reference numbers: 2944295, 2996975

On a more positive note, they filed a claim on my behalf and despite not having insurance on the original shipment, and they reimbursed me $40 for the model.

Other than obtaining a formal print out of the weight of the package when it was sent back to me, to have stronger evidence that it was in fact lighter when returned, this has been resolved for me.

Cyx ( 24 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by Cyx » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:43 pm

Well, it just so happens that a helpful usps agent called me at lunch. Using the reference numbers, and tracking number any of this information is verifiable by calling usps and asking for an agent.

Phone for claims: 866-974-2733. Choose option 3 for accounts receivable to immediately talk to someone. And then use the reference numbers 2944295 and 2996975 to have an agent call you.

The picture below shows definitively that Siegebeast sent the package back at 2lbs. 7oz. I had to crop the email, but all of the information is there. And I can forward this email to anyone who wants to see the entirety of the contents as they were sent to me.

http://postimg.org/image/z90spk4gj/
[Admin edit - Image removed for privacy (visible address)]

I have nothing more to add to the BTR. As I have been reimbursed and believe that I sufficiently showed that I did not leave out a model when I sent the package, this issue is resolved.

I will provide new pictures of the GS on the models in this and the deadbeat/back-out thread if needed. In order to expedite the closing of these threads.

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
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Re: BTR: Siegebeast2142, Christopher (CJ) Hooker

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:41 pm

I will mark this as resolved by USPS.
Update the pics into the DB/BO thread, please.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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