BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker - Resolved

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squirrelowar ( -2 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by squirrelowar » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:40 pm

CJ read the messages. Early in the trade you offered to buy a box of stormvermin because they had extra weapons to help convert the warlords. At this point I considered it, because if nothing else I have 20 stormvermin.

Then you said you had 57 and they didn't need any conversions at all.

We aren't here discussing a weapon swap. We are talking about reposing the warlords so they can be ranked. That is a conversion and in my opinion goes against what you said in the trade talks. If at any point you had said, "the warlords won't rank without reposing" our trade would not have included them at all. You didn't do that though. You led me to believe they worked as stormvermin and they don't.

SORROW,
If the mods consensus is that "I should have known better" rather than someone should be clear about their models then so be it. I feel it's a direct contridiction to the rules but that doesn't amount to much.

I will keep the skaven but I feel I'm within my right to post negative feedback on this trade. In the messages Cj lied about the need to convert the warlord models. Regardless of what point he said that or what was said before it, he said they don't need to be converted and they do. That's a lie and poor trading practices. You can say I should know better and I'll take the $140 lose but it needs to be posted for people to watch out on this type of thing from him. Its very suspect that he was very far down on the trade and then all of a sudden he has double the number of warlords and they need no converting to be counts as stormvermin. I feel he lied to push the trade.

Siegebeast2142 ( 52 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by Siegebeast2142 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:44 pm

Option two is fine by me.

I also request the thread be deleted, or at the very least all mentions of my real name be removed.

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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:49 pm

squirrelowar wrote:SORROW,
If the mods consensus is that "I should have known better" rather than someone should be clear about their models then so be it. I feel it's a direct contridiction to the rules but that doesn't amount to much.

I will keep the skaven but I feel I'm within my right to post negative feedback on this trade. In the messages Cj lied about the need to convert the warlord models. Regardless of what point he said that or what was said before it, he said they don't need to be converted and they do. That's a lie and poor trading practices. You can say I should know better and I'll take the $140 lose but it needs to be posted for people to watch out on this type of thing from him. Its very suspect that he was very far down on the trade and then all of a sudden he has double the number of warlords and they need no converting to be counts as stormvermin. I feel he lied to push the trade.
Read what I'm writing.

I don't see how Siegebeast COULD HAVE BEEN CLEARER about the models you were getting (with the notable exception of the statement "The warlords don't need any converting to be storm vermin, both are armed w/halbreds and hand weapons." which in context refers quite plainly to their armaments).

I further don't see how you can claim ignorance given your own statements:
warlords at $5, honestly though if they are meant to be stormvermin I would price them as such. As stormvermin I see a use and would pay that price, as heroes I have no interest in paying for 30 of a single pose hero.
Also I'm not sure that I can convert 20-30 lords to be proper stormvermin
That would definitely help with the stormvermin
You very clearly knew that you were getting Skaven Warlords, that some conversion work was a possibility, and that you were not getting Stormvermin.

If I genuinely felt I was out $140, I wouldn't be sanguinely accepting keeping things as they are.

I think you should each return, paying your own shipping, and walk away.

I'll confer with the other staff, but I frankly don't see how a negref would be justified, given that you got exactly what was stated.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:49 pm

Siegebeast2142 wrote:Option two is fine by me.

I also request the thread be deleted, or at the very least all mentions of my real name be removed.
BTRs are closed, not deleted.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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No Finecast, please.
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READ THE RULES!
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Tips on shipping to Canada
-----
Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

squirrelowar ( -2 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by squirrelowar » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:56 pm

I'm was accepting the trade because I'm new here and you are telling me its my fault.

With that said we can terminate the trade at this point. I will message CJ to get the models returned.

If posting a neg ref at this point is against the rules then tell me. Otherwise I will be posting one.

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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:04 pm

squirrelowar wrote:I'm was accepting the trade because I'm new here and you are telling me its my fault.
I think that's disingenuous. You bargained pretty hard throughout this thread; you're not some newb that got swept in on my a trade shark.

I'm telling you that I find your claim is unsubstantiated by your own statements and the evidence.
squirrelowar wrote: With that said we can terminate the trade at this point. I will message CJ to get the models returned.
Good. I suggest that you both very carefully package everything, that you photograph it once packed, and that you insure the packages for the appropriate values.

When you have each received and verified, we will close and lock the thread.
squirrelowar wrote:If posting a neg ref at this point is against the rules then tell me. Otherwise I will be posting one.
As I said, I will confer with the staff.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

-----
No Finecast, please.
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READ THE RULES!
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Tips on shipping to Canada
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Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

Siegebeast2142 ( 52 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by Siegebeast2142 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:06 pm

You have no grounds to terminate this trade. We both got what we saw pictures of and were expecting. What you are trying to do now is back out of a trade, which is a neg ref, and throws your name into the deadbeats and blackouts forum.

squirrelowar ( -2 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by squirrelowar » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: space marine bikes
Sent: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:00 pm
From: squirrelowar(6)
To: Siegebeast2142
As per Sorrow advice I'm terminating our trade. I will be shipping your models back tomorrow. Please acknowledge you will be doing the same. Other than that good luck in your future trading.

I will message once I have tracking. Your models will be returned to you in the condition they arrived in and I expect mine to be treated the same.
Re: space marine bikes
Sent: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:02 pm
From: Siegebeast2142(22)
To: squirrelowar
The trade has been completed, our agreement honored. I will not be shipping my models to you, as they are now mine, and not yours.
SORROW,
So I am exercising the advice you have given and I am attempting to cancel the trade. CJ has refused. You are correct, I feel like I have been cheated and I shouldn't have to continue with a bum deal. What now?

squirrelowar ( -2 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by squirrelowar » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:09 pm

When the mods suggestion is to cancel the trade, I would hardly consider that a backout.

Siegebeast2142 ( 52 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by Siegebeast2142 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:17 pm

The mods suggestion was to either cancel and walk away, or keep as is and walk away. Only one of those options is backing out. Also, the mods have stated that it is very reasonable to have expected you to know about the rank and file issue, and that we both got exactly what we wanted and expected to receive. Sending models back to me to cancel a trade is the definition of backing out.

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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:19 pm

Siegebeast2142 wrote:You have no grounds to terminate this trade. We both got what we saw pictures of and were expecting. What you are trying to do now is back out of a trade, which is a neg ref, and throws your name into the deadbeats and blackouts forum.
In no case would this qualify as a Backout.

Further, I would not advise a lot of pushing back. This trade is clearly sub-optimal.

Siegebeast, at the very least, you created some confusion, and I also see that there are some model mis-identifications in what you sent.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

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No Finecast, please.
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READ THE RULES!
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Tips on shipping to Canada
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Siegebeast2142 ( 52 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by Siegebeast2142 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:31 pm

The misidentifactions on my part and the miscount on his have been addressed by both of us and called a wash. The only thing he has left is the war lords, which are exactly what I said they are, in the condition I said they were in.

To be fair, I'm unhappy with the "command squad" he sent, because they aren't playable as such. Command squads cannot take special weapons, only combi weapons. The apothecary has no permission to take a combined weapon or special weapon, but has a melts gun anyways. I now need to convert painted assembled models though be able to use them as described in the trade. Am I upset? Yes. Is it Justin mason's fault? No. I should've checked my codex and done my research. Did I get exactly what he described and sent pictures of? Yes. Frankly, I'm okay with this trade, because we both got exactly what was stated and pictured.

This is a done trade, and had anyone in the same situation sent models back w/out a btr, they would be a dead beat / back out.
As it stands, a btr is worse than any neg ref, because people will just do a forum search for my name, see the btr, not read all of it and make assumptions, when in fact this is a btr with no leg to stand on meant to deface my name.

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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:36 pm

Siegebeast2142 wrote: This is a done trade, and had anyone in the same situation sent models back w/out a btr, they would be a dead beat / back out.
I say again, you are factually mistaken.
Siegebeast2142 wrote: As it stands, a btr is worse than any neg ref, because people will just do a forum search for my name, see the btr, not read all of it and make assumptions, when in fact this is a btr with no leg to stand on meant to deface my name.
I guess you have to decide whether a BTR AND a negref is worse than just a BTR, because it looks like that's where you're headed--both of you.

There are some problems with this trade, on both sides.

I'm frankly beginning to wonder why it is that you are so reluctant to simply reset to zero.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

-----
No Finecast, please.
-----
READ THE RULES!
-----
Tips on shipping to Canada
-----
Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

squirrelowar ( -2 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by squirrelowar » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:38 pm

My command squad is correct. Maybe you should do your research before you tear apart my models. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/P ... s_v1.1.pdf any model in a command squad can take items from special weapons.

The result of this BTR was mistakes were made by us both and the suggested action is to cancel the trade and return models. That is what I am following, and what you are currently refusing.

Siegebeast2142 ( 52 )
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Re: BTR Siegebeast2142 CJ Hooker

Post by Siegebeast2142 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:46 pm

My apologies, I didn't know they had errata'd anything... Gw is notorious of plate for not doing FAQ updates. The apothecary is not a veteran, though, so still needs the removal of the melta gun.

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