Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei) - Resolved

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Snarkhunter ( 54 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei) - Resolved

Post by Snarkhunter » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:32 pm

Introduction

I agreed to purchase some Forgeworld models from hollowhelm. The items received were not as described. The Incarnate Elemental of Fire was assembled (described as unassembled), bases were missing for the Drazhoath the Ashen and the Incarnate Elemental of Fire, the Dreadquake Mortar and Death Shreiker Rocket models were missing, and an extra Magma Cannon was sent. The seller agreed to send me the Dreadquake Mortar and missing bases, and allow me to keep the extra Magma Cannon (the missing Deathshreiker was not discussed). After this discussion, I because suspicious of the authenticity of the models due to their poor quality. I have contacted Forgeworld, who confirmed that they are recasts.

Proof

Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:23 am
by Snarkhunter

Hi,

I am interested in your Chaos Dwarf list. You mention that some of the models are unbuilt. Could you provide pictures of the models that have had work done to them (those that are no longer still on the sprue)? I would like to make an offer, but I need to see the current condition of the models first.

Thanks!

Subject: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$ ETC

hollowhelm wrote:Hi all, I just received a package of FW stuff that I planned on using for my own armies but I ultimately ended up trading the armies away before the package arrived so now they're on the block for sale/trade. Since they are all new and unbuilt, my prices are FIRM.
I also have bought a large FULL FORGEWORLD CHAOS DWARF army and is looking to sell it off now as it is getting to be too big of a project and I don't have the time. From Forgeworld, these retail for 830 total (not including duty and shipping which is about another 320$). Half of them aren't even assembled yet as I just don't have time. Let me know if you are interested but my price is fairly firm. A full forgeworld army for sale is quite rare and can go really fast so get them while you can. Thanks!

My Chaos Dwarves List: (575 SHIPPED)
1 Sorcerer Prophet on bale Taurus
3 Daemonsmith
1 Infernal Guard Full command
30 Infernal Guards HW/S
2 Magma Cannons
1 Deathshrieker Rocket
1 Iron Daemon /w Skullcracker
1 Elemental Fire Incarnate (K Daai Destroyer)
1 Dreadquake Mortar

Other FW stuff:
1 Storm Eagle (full kit UNBUILT UNTOUCHED) (130 SHIPPED)
2 FW Plague Drones (full kit UNBUILT UNTOUCHED) (55$ each/100 both SHIPPED)


My trade wants:
$$$$$$$
1 FW Gargantuan Squiggoth (will put in money for this)
2 FW Giant Squiggoth
6 FW Jet Bikes
1 Mantic Veer-myn Night Spawn (must not be attached to bases)
20 Mantic Veer-myn Scouragers/nightmares (must not be attached to bases)
40 Mantic Veer-myn Nightcrawlers/stalkers (must not be attached to bases)
[/color]

Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:46 am
by hollowhelm

Hey friend give me your email and cell number and ill snap a few pics.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:52 am
by Snarkhunter

Email: {Snarkhunter's email}

Cell: {Snarkhunter's cell #}

Thanks!


[TEXT MESSAGE from Hollowhelm] 9:59 am on Nov 6, 2013:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


[TEXT MESSAGE from Hollowhelm] 10:04 am on Nov 6, 2013: Pics for the chaos dwarves


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:05 am
by hollowhelm

Hi, I just texted you a few pics!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:30 am
by Snarkhunter

Thanks for the pictures. A few questions:

This looks like: sorc on bull, 3 demonsmiths, 10 IG, 3 IG command, and a magma cannon.

Is everything else new on sprue?

Are any bits missing? One the the IG in the pic looks like it is missing an arm (front guy on the end)?

Are there bases for everything?

Considering your rating of 0 (welcome to barter town, btw), could we do half the $ now and half upon delivery?

Thanks!


[TEXT MESSAGE from Snarkhunter] 11:30 am on Nov 6, 2013: Reply sent on Btown.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:35 am
by hollowhelm

Hi, everything is there. Yeah those are the only ones that I assembled I think as I kept them on my shelf, everything else is in a box downstairs. As for the magma cannon, I didn't glue the guys on because of easy painting. The castellan has 2 arms, one HW and one pistol, I plan on magnetizing them which is why I didn't glue it on but everything will be included. The cannons and stuff never came with bases but everything else has bases. I cannot do half half as I have alot of experience on Dakkadakka + this is alot of stuff. We can take this to ebay if PayPal isn't secure enough. I don't mind. Let me know. Cheers!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:44 am
by Snarkhunter

Everything looks good. What are you known by on dakka and eBay? I can look there, since you have no references here. If you have some good rep there then I have no issue paying all up front on PayPal.

Thanks!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:02 pm
by hollowhelm

I just made my ebay to buy things so its got no rep but my name is VostroyanFirstClass on Dakkadakka. If you want, on my signature for my Dakkadakka account I listed the people I had successful deals with. You can message them and ask them. Btw, ur in NA right?


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:52 pm
by hollowhelm

Hi, so what's up? Are you good to go? I can have my girlfriend pack the stuff up as ship tmr morning if you can get payment in today. Let me know ASAP. Thanks!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:01 pm
by Snarkhunter
I think we have a deal. What's the plan for shipping? Will you be sending 1 box or 2? Getting insurance? For something this valuable, I definately want tracking #'s. Please make sure everything is packed safely - hate to see such beautiful sculpts and all the work you put into cleaning/assembling/basing get wasted by some carelessness by the post office.

Here's my address:

{Snarkhunter's address}

What is your paypal?


[TEXT MESSAGE from Snarkhunter] 6:19 pm on Nov 6, 2013: New reply sent on Btown. Need PayPal to send $. Also questions on shipping.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:46 pm
by hollowhelm

Hi, my paypal is [Admin edit - removed by MM]

Let me know when you have sent the payment. Thanks!

I will make sure that everything is securely packaged. Will put in one box. I will either use fedex, ups, or post canada. I will use the standard shipping method to do it and also will make sure there is a tracking number for this package. Thanks!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:17 pm
by Snarkhunter

Payment has been sent by paypal.

Thanks!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:35 pm
by hollowhelm

Payment received. Will ship tomorrow. Thanks!


[TEXT MESSAGE from Hollowhelm] 11:53 pm on Nov 7, 2013: {Picture with Snarkhunter's address labeled on a package} Does this address/info look right? Just confirming before shipping.


[TEXT MESSAGE from Snarkhunter] 11:54 pm on Nov 7, 2013: Yes thanks!


[TEXT MESSAGE from Hollowhelm] 11:55 pm on Nov 7, 2013: Okay Ill provide you with the tracking info once I ship it!


[TEXT MESSAGE from Hollowhelm] 7:08 pm on Nov 8, 2013:

Image

There you go. Got it sent


[TEXT MESSAGE from Snarkhunter] 7:10 pm on Nov 8, 2013: Thanks. I will let you know when it arrives.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:46 pm
by Snarkhunter

I received the package today, and I'm not very happy.

Based upon our messages, I was expecting to receive two magma cannons (one of which is assembled) and one dreadquake mortar. Instead I received three magma cannons (one of which is assembled) and no dreadquake. A magma cannon retails for about $62.79 US, and a dreadquake retails for about $123.97 US. That's a difference of $61.81.

Prior to making our agreement, I confirmed with you that only the "sorc on bull, 3 demonsmiths, 10 IG, 3 IG command, and a <single> magma cannon" were assembled. In fact, the Elemental Incarnate of Fire is fully assembled as well.

You also informed me that other than the cannons (and stuff that doesnt come with a base), everything else had its proper base. But in fact, Drazhoath the Ashen should have come with a 60x100 base and a flight stand; and the Elemental Incarnate of Fire was missing his base as well. That will run me about $10 on ebay to replace these missing bases.

I'd like to know what you suggest in order to resolve these issues. The assembled Elemental is not as valuable as a new one (and will be more difficult to clean up and paint), and the swap from a Dreadquake Mortar to a Magma Cannon and the lack of bases on Drazhoath and the Elemental leaves me out for at least $72.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:10 am
by hollowhelm

The dread quake was coming in the mail as we negotiated and should be here shortly. I stated that in the post that I made when I was selling these. I will ship that when it arrives no problem. If I gave you a third magma cannon, it was by mistake as there should only be two and consider it for free. It's not a replacement. It's FOR FREEEEE. I thought I told you that the fire incarnate was assembled already but if I didn't thats my bad. All it really needs is a bit of gap filling probably and nothing too serious as it was a good cast (except the spear is a bit warped but all resin are warped). As for the bases, the elemental fire incarnate comes with the 50x100 size as K'Daai destroyer doesn't actually exist. The Ashen comes with a 50x100 base as well as there is no 60x100 base size and there is no flying stand for it as the flying stand is only for the bale taurus model. I had my wife pack this so I can't tell you for sure if the bases were included but I have plenty of bases lying around. Tell me what bases you want and I'll add them into the dread quake mortar when I ship it later this week. Hope this helps/clarifies things. If anything else is wrong let me know and I'm happy to fix it.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:19 am
by Snarkhunter

Thanks for the quick response.

Please let me know when the dreadquake arrives. Don't worry about the bases, as long as you are able to send me the dreadquake.

If it works out as you say, then I'll be very pleased with our deal.

Thanks!


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:23 am
by hollowhelm

Okay I will send it asap no problem. Also, what bases did you want? I don't mind throwing in some if you need them.


EMAIL
from: {Snarkhunter's email}
to: forgeworld@gwplc.com
date: Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:59 AM
subject: Possible recasts (photos)
mailed-by: gmail.com

Hi,

I called your customer service number today and spoke with someone who was very helpful about a ForgeWorld related problem I am facing:

I recently purchased some used models (all unpainted, some unassembled) including: 3x10 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard, 1 set of Infernal Guard Command, 1 set of Chaos Dwarf Daemonsmiths, 1x Drazhoath the Ashen, 2x Chaos Dwarf Magma Cannon, 1x Chaos Dwarf Death Shrieker Rocket, 1x Chaos Dwarf Dreadquake Mortar, 1x Chaos Dwarf Skullcracker, and 1x Incarnate Elemental of Fire. The arrangements to purchase the used models were made through Bartertown.com, and the individual selling the models resides in Canada (I'm in the USA). So far, I have received (in one shipment) everything except the Death Shrieker and the Dreadquake Mortar. I also received an additional Magma Cannon. Upon examining the models, I had some significant concerns that they may be counterfeit.

Please take a look at the attached photos and provide me with your opinion as to the authenticity of these models. I will be contacting Paypal (who handled the exchange of funds) and Bartertown to make them aware of this situation and seek their assistance in getting a refund from the seller. I appreciate your time on this matter, and any suggestions, comments, or opinions you may be able to provide.

Best Regards,

{Snarkhunter's name, address, phone}

Image
Skullcracker - part of the bits (wheel hubs are see through and poor cast).jpg

Image
Skullcracker - rest of the bits.jpg

Image
Chaos Dwarf Daemonsmiths (see through shoulderpad and poor details).jpg

Image
Drazhoath the Ashen - flank (sprue attachment).jpg

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Drazhoath the Ashen - front (shiny and poor detail).jpg

Image
Drazhoath the Ashen - top (see through wings).jpg

Image
Incarnate Elemental of Fire - bottom (bubble on his butt).jpg

Image
Incarnate Elemental of Fire - Side (shiny and poor detail).jpg

Image
Infernal Command (see through shoulder and standard).jpg

Image
Infernal Command.jpg

Image
Infernal Guard - assembled set of 10.jpg

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Infernal Guard - Body 1 (see through shoulder and collar).jpg

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Infernal Guard - Body 2 (see through shoulder).jpg

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Infernal Guard - sealed set of 10 (sealed package around a ziplock bag ).jpg

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Infernal Guard - Shield set #3 (see through and weird sprue).jpg

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Infernal Guard - Shields set # 1 (see through).jpg

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Infernal Guard - Shields set #2 (see through).jpg

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Infernal Guard - Sprue (trademark).jpg

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Infernal Guard - Sprue (weird bottom).jpg

Image
Infernal Guard - unassembled open bag of 10.jpg

Image
Infernal Guard - Weapon (double mould line).jpg

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Magma Cannon #1 - bottom (inscription).jpg

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Magma Cannon #1 - includes other random bits.jpg

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Magma Cannons #2 and #3 (sealed package around two ziplock bags).jpg

Image
Skullcracker - arm bit (see through and filled in).jpg

Image
Skullcracker - bottom (see through).jpg

Image
Skullcracker - bottom (see thru and weird texture).jpg

Image
Skullcracker - Chain bit (see through).jpg

Image
Skullcracker - frame bit (see through and filled in).jpg


EMAIL
from: forgeworld <forgeworld@gwplc.com>
to: {Snarkhunter's email}
date: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:05 AM
subject: Re: Possible recasts (photos)

Hi {Snarkhunter},

Thank you for sending those images in for us. By looks of it they do look like they are recasts of our products. I have forwarded on your email to our legal team to look into it further. If you get any more information please pass it onto us.

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

Find out about our FREE SHIPPING offer now!



If you have a query about your order, please call
0115 900 4995 within the UK
011 44 115 900 4995 from the US and Canada
00 44 115 900 4995 from much of Europe

Our office hours are:
0930 – 1800 (GMT) Monday to Friday
0930 – 1700 (GMT) Saturday


Supporting Information

I have the following contact information on hollowhelm:

Ken Wei
8140 Rosebank Cres
Richmond
BC, V7AZK6
Canada

[Admin edit - Phone # removed by MM]

Further research on Dakkadakka.com reveals a bad trade may have occurred there as well (under his alias: VostroyanFirstClass). I wish I had seen these prior to initiating our transaction.

link --> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 47543.page

Follow Through

I am now proceeding to file a claim/dispute with Paypal to attempt to have my money refunded. I will be following Paypal's instructions as to the final disposition of the counterfeit models. I will also be providing all of the contact information on hollowhelm to ForgeWorld.

Snarkhunter ( 54 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by Snarkhunter » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:39 pm

Additional Messages sent after posting BTR

Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:29 pm
From: hollowhelm(-8)
To: Snarkhunter
Hi, it says you are filing a claim for the Chaos Dwarf army? Can you explain to me why this is? I thought I had explained the situation to you already?


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:10 am
From: hollowhelm(-8)
To: Snarkhunter
I know you read my messages. So is there a reason why you are not responding me?


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:17 am
From: hollowhelm(-8)
To: Snarkhunter
Either way, you have to reply me sooner or latrr to return me my stuff and so u have to contact me and this lack of communication is not great as I ALWAYS responded to your messages ASAP and also provided a very clear explaination and solution which you have your consent to and accepted. Then out of no where, you file this without any sort of previous attempts to contact me and I believe this is unreasonable. This is leading me to in turn question your credibility.


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:22 am
From: hollowhelm(-8)
To: Snarkhunter
I want to (as believe you want to as well) work out a solution to whatever the problem may be. However, I can't do that if you reply me. Help me help each other please...


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:38 pm
From: Snarkhunter(48)
To: hollowhelm
It was very late last night when I read your message, so I delayed my response until today.

The reason I have taken action to file a claim with PayPal is that the models you sent me have been determined by ForgeWorld to be counterfeit recasts. The terms of our agreement were for ForgeWorld models not illegal recasts. Of course this transaction had other issues as well (missing models, an assembled model that was described as unassembled, and an extra model), but prior to discovering that the models were counterfeit, I was willing to work with you to resolve those other issues.

I requested a full refund of my payment through PayPal. If you want to help resolve this issue then I suggest you start by refunding my money. If it is legal and meets with the approval of PayPal, ForgeWorld, and Bartertown, then I am willing to return your models.

I have posted this information to this thread --> viewtopic.php?f=103&t=219746

Any additional communication should be posted there.

Snarkhunter ( 54 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by Snarkhunter » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:07 pm

Additional Messages sent after posting BTR #2

Re: A bad trade reference has been posted about you from Sna

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:50 pm
by hollowhelm
What? I explained to you the situation about the missing/assembled/extra models first of all and you agreed that it was indeed fine. Second of all, what makes the models counterfeit? I bought these as a lot from ebay a while back for around the same price I sold to you and said person labelled it as Forgeworld and I pretty much copied his item description and put it here with minor personal changes. Explain to me what makes a model counterfeit (both to prove to me and for me to understand in future situations). Because quite frankly the situation is that I paid alot for those models and now you are basically saying that my stuff is crap and severed communications as well and made no comments about returning my models or anything of such. Reply to this message in 48 hours or else I will disagree with this claim because I am not going to frickin lose my models and money...


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:56 pm
From: hollowhelm(-8)
To: Snarkhunter
I saw the post you made I don't know what to say as I am new to forgeworld and so don't know. The guy I bought from told me that it was just a miscast and that they're supposed to be like that. I understand if you don't like the product and don't really want to make you lose out as its my all means unfair. So I'll just take the *edit* end of the metaphorical stick (both from you and from that ebay guy) and ill return all your coins. When will you be able to return the models to me?


Re: [H] !CHAOS DWARF ARMY! StormEagle Plague Drones [W] $$$

Sent: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:06 pm
From: Snarkhunter(48)
To: hollowhelm
Please see the thread I previously linked for my response.

All communication should continue there.

Snarkhunter ( 54 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by Snarkhunter » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:08 pm

@ hollowhelm:

I can understand if you were fooled by an ebay seller. It would have been best for you to disclose the conversation with your ebay seller "that it was just a miscast and that they're supposed to be like that" prior to initiating our transaction.

It is clear the models are counterfeit. Obvious signs include: double mold lines, extensive air bubbles, miscasting, and the packaging of their models (ForgeWorld does not seal packaging around bits inside of ziplock bags). As a resource to spot recasts, see this link for Ebay's guide to Identifying FAKE/Recast Model Kits --> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Identifying-FAK ... 749/g.html

As I said before, I am willing return your models if it is legal for me to do so and if doing so meets the approval of PayPal, ForgeWorld, and Bartertown. Please begin the resolution of this issue by refunding my money.

Any future communication should continue here on this thread (and not by PM, etc).

hollowhelm ( -8 )
Apprentice Trader
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by hollowhelm » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:51 pm

"I saw the post you made I don't know what to say as I am new to forgeworld and so don't know. The guy I bought from told me that it was just a miscast and that they're supposed to be like that. I understand if you don't like the product and don't really want to make you lose out as its my all means unfair. So I'll just take the *edit* end of the metaphorical stick (both from you and from that ebay guy) and ill return all your coins. When will you be able to return the models to me?"
I would sort it out with he guy I bought from if i could but unfortunately I am past the Paypal refund date and need the models either way to even try a return to him. I am probably going to end up giving it all to my little brother as I am done with this game... I will return your money sometimes today and hope you can ship out soon as well and pack it as carefully as I did because I plan on giving this as a Christmas gift to my bro. Thanks.

hollowhelm ( -8 )
Apprentice Trader
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by hollowhelm » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:59 pm

Refunded through PayPal. Request of return issued as well. Sorry about all this. This won't be a fun Christmas for me haha. You guys wont be hearing from me anymore. You take care.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by kturock » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:37 am

If it's a forgery, you should be able to file with ebay and paypal anyway.
You should still try to contact them and get your money back and have the seller banned for seeling forgeries.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

hollowhelm ( -8 )
Apprentice Trader
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by hollowhelm » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:52 am

Okay I will definitely give that guy a run for his money but I have to admit I am not a expert of the law or anything of this kind and so don't really have too much experience in this field. I will consult my folks.

User avatar
s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:19 pm

I don't know that I accept Forge World's response on this issue full-stop. I've received some pretty dodgy models direct from the source. But you could be right.

Nonetheless:

@Snarkhunter

You should return his models IMMEDIATELY. If you have your money back, your side on this is DONE.

Hollowhelm can take this up with eBay as he needs to do.

It's also complete garbage for you to initiate a BTR on this issue without advising your trade partner FIRST. You saw pics of the models upfront and were content with them then

When you received the package, you did not list any complaints about QUALITY, only QUANTITY and CONDITION.

If concerns about QUALITY then arose, you have a duty to discuss them with your trade partner.

I think it would be pretty unacceptable for Hollowhelm to get victimized TWICE here, once by his eBay seller, and once by you.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

-----
No Finecast, please.
-----
READ THE RULES!
-----
Tips on shipping to Canada
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Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

hollowhelm ( -8 )
Apprentice Trader
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by hollowhelm » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:42 pm

@s_o_r_r_o_w
Thank you so much for understanding that it's not easy on my part at all either.

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s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
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Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:09 pm

Snarkhunter,

What is the status of the return?
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

-----
No Finecast, please.
-----
READ THE RULES!
-----
Tips on shipping to Canada
-----
Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

Snarkhunter ( 54 )
BTown Regular
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by Snarkhunter » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:09 pm

Status Update

Nov 16: I sent the following email to ForgeWorld, per their request:

EMAIL
from: {Snarkhunter's email}
to: forgeworld <forgeworld@gwplc.com>
date: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 2:42 PM
subject: Re: Possible recasts (photos)

Thanks for your quick response. I will proceed with filing a claim through PayPal to have my funds returned.
I have the following contact information on the person who sold me these recasts:

Ken Wei
8140 Rosebank Cres
Richmond
BC, V7AZK6
Canada

{hollowhelm's phone #}

Alias on Bartertown.com: hollowhelm
Alias on Dakkadakka.com: VostroyanFirstClass

Also please feel free to see additional information here --> viewtopic.php?f=103&t=219746

Best Regards,

{Snarkhunter's name, address, phone #}


Nov 16: I then filed a claim on PayPal for items "Significantly Not as Described".

Nov 17: I received an update from PayPal regarding my claim. Here's the email:
Dear {Snarkhunter},

We decided the claim for the following transaction in your favor:

Seller's Name: Jianbin Wei
Seller's Email: [Admin edit by MM - No ph#'s or email addresses]
Seller's Transaction ID: 5K899824GR853640T

Transaction Date: Nov 6, 2013
Transaction Amount: -$575.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: 88J5164721470432T
Case Number: PP-002-759-549-662

Buyer's Transaction ID: 88J5164721470432T

Before we can issue you a refund, we need you to return the item to your seller following these steps:

1. Return the item. Please ship the item to the seller at the following address:
8140 Rosebank Cres.
Richmond
British Columbia
V7A 2K6
Canada

2. Provide us with online tracking. Ship the item using any shipping service that provides online tracking. Here's how to provide your tracking information:

1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Click "Resolution Center" near the top of the page.
3. Click "Respond" in the Action column for this transaction.
4. Click "Provide Tracking Information".
5. Enter your tracking information.
6. Click "Submit Tracking Info".

Note:
- We need your shipping information within 10 days of receiving this email. If you can't provide the shipping information within this timeframe, you will not receive a refund.
- If your transaction was $250.00 or more, we require online proof of delivery from the shipping service in the form of a signature from the recipient.
- You are responsible for the shipping costs to return the item to the seller.

After we can confirm your shipping information, we'll issue you a refund by crediting your PayPal account. Please note that your refund is based on the PayPal Purchase Protection coverage amount listed on the auction and could be less than the original transaction amount.

Sincerely,
PayPal
There is no further communication from PayPal, although I did receive phone confirmation as described in the emails to Games Workshop Legal on Nov 19 (see below).

On Nov 18: I received an email from ForgeWorld (here it is):
EMAIL
from: forgeworld <forgeworld@gwplc.com>
to: {Snarkhunter's email}
date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:04 AM
subject: Re: Possible recasts (photos)

Hi,
Thank you for your email. We have passed it onto the GW Legal Team to look in to along with your earlier mail.
If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World
Nov 18: I then received an email from GW Legal (as follows):
EMAIL
from: Tom Nanson <tom.nanson@gwplc.com>
to: {Snarkhunter's email}
date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:29 AM
subject: RE: Possible recasts (photos)

Hi {Snarkhunter}

I’m very sorry to hear that you have received counterfeit goods. We don’t like seeing our hobbyists taken advantage of and hope we can help you claim your money back.
From the images we can tell that the Skullcracker was not produced by us. The other items do not appear to be made by us but we would need to examine them to be sure. Could you please send the items to me at the freepost address below so they can be tested:

Tom Nanson
Legal Department
Games Workshop
Freepost NW3673
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2BR

We can then provide a letter to PayPal supporting your claim. If you are successful with your claim we would then retain the products as evidence and destroy them in due course.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter and for the information you have provided.

Kind regards

Tom

Tom Nanson
IP Assistant
Group Legal Department
Games Workshop Group PLC
tom.nanson@gwplc.com
Nov 19: I then had the following email exchange with Tom at GW Legal:
EMAIL
from: Tom Nanson <tom.nanson@gwplc.com>
to: {Snarkhunter's email}
date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:35 AM
subject: RE: Possible recasts (photos)

Hi {Snarkhunter}

I’ve been told you aren’t able to use the freepost address from where you are. If you post the products to me then I can refund your postage through PayPal.
The process we normally go through when helping a hobbyist with a PayPal claim is:
· The items are posted to us

· We test them and confirm they are counterfeits

· We provide a letter to PayPal confirming they are counterfeits, saying they are in our possession and that they will be destroyed in due course

· PayPal make their decision (we have no control over this but our experience has been that if the claim is made within the time limits and they have our letter the claim is usually successful)
We will make sure that you are not left empty handed if you send the items in to us.
Please let me know if you have any questions by mailing me at tom.nanson@gwplc.com. Please let me know how you wish to proceed.

Kind regards

Tom

Tom Nanson
IP Assistant
Group Legal Department
Games Workshop Group PLC
tom.nanson@gwplc.com
EMAIL
from: {Snarkhunter's email}
to: Tom Nanson <tom.nanson@gwplc.com>
date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:32 AM
subject: RE: Possible recasts (photos)

Hi Tom,

I would really like to send the models to you to be tested/destroyed. I am faced with this dilemma:
On Monday, Paypal found in my favor on the claim I started Saturday (after receiving confirmation from ForgeWorld that the models appear to be counterfeit). I think the speed with which they resolved the claim was due to the seller responding "no contest" (or equivalent). I have received instructions from PayPal that in order to receive the refund of my money, I must send the items back to the seller at my cost with signature on delivery. I called to speak with them about these instructions, and they informed me on the phone that the claim had been screened by their counterfeit department and was determined NOT to qualify under those provisions. They also told me that this cannot be appealed because the claim was in my favor and that their instructions are final.
I really don't want this situation to drag on. This represents a significant amount of money to me, and also represents a project I was very excited to be able to work on during my winter break. If I get a refund through PayPal, I would simply order the models from you for my project (although I may swap out one or two of the choices: taking an Iron Daemon instead of a Skullcracker, for example). I want to try to resolve things and get some proper models prior to Christmas.
If I send the models to you, and PayPal continues to deny my claim, can you clarify what it means to not leave me empty handed? Do you have any idea how long this process should take?
I really want to help. I don't want the seller or the counterfeiters to benefit from this situation by PayPal allowing them to keep my money. I need this resolved soon and I need to be made whole.

Best Regards,

{Snarkhunter's name, address, phone #}
EMAIL
from: Tom Nanson <tom.nanson@gwplc.com>
to: {Snarkhunter's email}
date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:30 AM
subject: RE: Possible recasts (photos)

Hi {Snarkhunter}

I’m sorry that PayPal have put you in this awkward position. We are keen to get these models off the market and don’t want to see you out of pocket.
It is entirely up to you how you wish to proceed and I don’t want you to feel any pressure as you should do whatever is best for you.
If you decide to send the models to us we would like to offer you replacement models from Forge World up to the value you paid, I believe it was $575 (about £358). We would also reimburse you the cost of shipping the items to us. That way we would have the models off the market and you would not be left empty handed. We would then contact the seller for further information on where he acquired the models.
Please let me know how you wish to proceed. Either way I am glad you’ve got something back and I thank you for the information you’ve provided.

Tom

Tom Nanson
IP Assistant
Group Legal Department
Games Workshop Group PLC
tom.nanson@gwplc.com
EMAIL
from: {Snarkhunter's email}
to: Tom Nanson <tom.nanson@gwplc.com>
date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:47 AM
subject: RE: Possible recasts (photos)

Tom,

That sounds good. I really appreciate this offer, and I will absolutely take you up on it. I should be able to get the models on their way tomorrow, and I will email you with the tracking information.

Best Regards,

{Snarkhunter's name}


Nov 20: I have put the models in the mail to Tom at GW Legal (Tracking # CJ300030592US).

I expect that the pending refund from PayPal will expire since I will not be shipping the models back to the seller, and hollowhelm will retain the $575 I sent him for the models. I also expect that GW Legal will be contacting him to discover information on where he acquired the models.

User avatar
s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
Moderator Without Title
Posts: 2267
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 12:00 pm
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada / US PO Box

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:33 pm

Snarkhunter wrote: Nov 20: I have put the models in the mail to Tom at GW Legal (Tracking # CJ300030592US).

I expect that the pending refund from PayPal will expire since I will not be shipping the models back to the seller, and hollowhelm will retain the $575 I sent him for the models. I also expect that GW Legal will be contacting him to discover information on where he acquired the models.
As of now, that money is probably tied up on Hollowhelm's end because of your claim.

I want you to post confirmation that you are dropping the case with PayPal. You will probably at this point have to contact customer service by phone.

While I can understand your concern at receiving SNAD, your contact re your trade partner has been deplorable. You've been working multiple angles of this against him, without properly contacting him or keeping him (or us, for that matter) in the loop.

As it stands now, you are in a potential position to get models from FW AND your money back, while Hollowhelm is left with nothing.

It's hard to imagine a better example of "bad faith" than how you've conducted yourself here.
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

-----
No Finecast, please.
-----
READ THE RULES!
-----
Tips on shipping to Canada
-----
Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

User avatar
s_o_r_r_o_w ( 312 )
Moderator Without Title
Posts: 2267
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 12:00 pm
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada / US PO Box

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by s_o_r_r_o_w » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:35 pm

Further note:

Hollowhelm says he issued you a refund. Is that true?
I am always in the market for weird and wonderful GW oddbitz and ephemera. PM me if you have something old/weird/rare.

-----
No Finecast, please.
-----
READ THE RULES!
-----
Tips on shipping to Canada
-----
Bartertown Trade Vocabulary

hollowhelm ( -8 )
Apprentice Trader
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bad Trader: hollowhelm (Ken Wei)

Post by hollowhelm » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:52 pm

Firstly, I just want to say that I did not agree to you posting my personal information (address, full names, PAYPAL INFORMATION!!!! etc on a public posting. You will remove those right away (none negotiable). Then I want to say that, you put everyone, especially me, in a very awkward situation here. I have been very cooperative while you are not in the least. I have done EVERYTHING requested with FULL explanation and keeping FULL contact at all times while you haven't done anything of the sorts. You kept on stressing on how you paid for shipping and have to pay for shipping, but don't forget, I PAID for shipping them not you (its covered in the 575) so you aren't nearly as worse off as you are trying to make yourself sound. I have issued a full refund while I am getting the paypal transaction penalty on both the payment and refund procedures. You requested a refund and said you return the models to me (actually quite fair) and I agreed and done so, BUT WITHOUT any negotiations, prompts, suggestions, warnings, you decided to change the situation completely by bringing yet another party into this. You basically lied to me. I believe that that is very unfair as you are trying your hardest to push me under the bus in EVERY ASPECT (legally, financially, and model wise)! I am right now, quite furious with how you conducted this and DEMAND a proper explanation to all the things I brought up in this message.

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