BTR - DCastle - Poorly Resolved (only with BTown help)

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TurboNitroMonkey ( 2 )
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BTR - DCastle - Poorly Resolved (only with BTown help)

Post by TurboNitroMonkey » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:08 am

Trade started with this post:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=217590&p=407104#p407104

I was initially interested in just the Skorne dice, but through conversation we got to trading my Cygnar for his Convergence lot.

In resolution, I have just received my own Cygnar models back, with none of the protective foam I had sent them in, instead partially wrapped in paper towels, utterly SHATTERED.

I wish to note, that after he stated items he sent me had been lost in the mail, he had posted again on the forums to trade: (Specifically the Skorne dice, tokens, and part of the CoC lot: specifically the Attunement servitors with "no flight stands") (here is the post showing him offering items to trade that he had apparently already sent me) viewtopic.php?f=15&t=218513&p=408542#p408542 ) So not only is it a back-out, but he's lying about losing things in the mail, and continuing to trade them, letting communication go dead, keeping battlefoam, and returning shattered models, and when I say shattered, I mean there are only a FEW models with 'damage' per se, as in actual broken metal or plastic. But I would venture than nearly 50-60% of the glue joins are broken. It may take me a couple hours to fully inventory to make sure all the shields, and weapons, and arms, and warjack parts are still present, because it really is a pile of pewter at this point.

I sent first, because though we had the same rating (0), I was newer to Bartertown by a few days.
In the end, he never provided proof of an actual USPS tracking number, nor did he keep good on his offer to send 'a little something for my troubles'.

The following are photos of the 'after'.

My proof of tracking of when I sent him the lot, though I wish I'd had a picture of its before condition, it was sardined a bit, but everything was wrapped in foam:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/ ... CN1160.jpg

The lot as I received it in return:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/ ... CN1158.jpg

Detail of the after:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/ ... CN1159.jpg

As far as I can tell all the parts are there in theory, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise. The only thing that seems to be missing is the foam trays I used to pack and send the models to him in the first place.

This is my very first post to the Deadbeats and Backouts (or Bad Trader) forums, after my very first attempted trade, so I hope I have all my i's dotted and t's crossed. I've read the rules, and I think this'll do it.

The following is the communications between us, of course listed in reverse chronological order. This is now the 3rd post I've seen of this guy on the backout/deadbeat forum, and I wish I'd have seen it before I made any deals whatsoever.


Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:49 am
by Dcastle

Package sent. Eta is Thursday. Tracking is 9114 9011 2308 6327 1844 44
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:03 am
by TurboNitroMonkey

Thank you.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:00 am
by Dcastle

I've already said I'm shipping your stuff back. I'm boxing it all up tonight and shipping it tomorrow morning. You'll have a tracking number by noon tomorrow.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:46 am
by TurboNitroMonkey

Pardon me for saying the following, as I've been very polite about all this, despite sneaking suspicions that I'm being had.

Please be forthcoming about what is going on, and either hold up your end of the bargain and ship the CoC models, tokens and dice as agreed, or return my property and show proof that you had a tracking number in the first place so I can look it up and that USPS has honored the insurance claim. You received my package 13 days ago, and I'm still empty handed. Every time you said you would get back to me, you have not. In addition, on the 30th you posted on the forums again looking to trade items that you said you'd already sent to me. (The Skorne Dice and Tokens, plus Convergence Attunement Servitors that were suspiciously still missing flight stands, even though they should have been already sent to me.)

Did you make a different deal with somebody else but FORGET to tell me before I sent my end of the bargain?

Again, I apologize if my frustration is in error. But I know as for myself, that if something I sent in the mail insured or otherwise, was lost, that I'd make sure that the person I was trading with got their stuff back, expediently, and be forthcoming every step of the way.

-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:42 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

... sure.

any case we can still work out something on the Skorne dice. They're what I was looking for in the first place, after all.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:01 pm
by Dcastle

Yes sorry. USPS has indeed lost the package. I've already filed to collect the insurance I put on it. That being the case I'll have to mail you back the cygnar ufortumatly. I apologize immensely for this screw up. I'm going to include a refund for your shipping costs aswell.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:16 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Good evening sir. You said you'd get back to me yesterday with an update, but you never did, any word on what's up?
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:18 pm
by Dcastle

Hey, I checked the receipt and it say "Estimated Delivery Wed. Oct. 30th."
Although when I enter the tracking number '9114901123086327246250' it gives me an error message.
Luckily I had insurance on it. Let me check with my post office and see if they can locate it.
I've had this problem before with them. The closer it gets to the holidays, the shadier they get.
Worst case scenario, I guess I could just mail your Cygnar back, with a little something for your troubles.
Let me get back to you tomorrow evening with some new information.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:15 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Hi there. No luck today. Would you toss me the confirmation number when you get a moment?
Thankye kindly.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:47 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Awesome. Thankye kindly.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:42 pm
by Dcastle

I'm sorry friend. I could have sword I sent you a message. Your new Cyriss and Skorne dice are en route to you right now actually.
I shipped them last Wednesday, and the receipt said they'd be to you this up coming Wednesday. Not sure why it takes so long to get there. Although the Cygnar took 6 days to get here too. The tracking number is sitting in my work desk so I'll get that for you tomorrow. Sorry again for no reply. Work and Life have a tendency to hit you when you least expect it.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:34 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Any updates sir? Any games won under the Cygnus in the meanwhile?
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:28 am
by Dcastle

Some simple breaks, but it's to be expected. I'll have my end of the deal out either today or tomorrow pending what time I can get out of work.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:20 am
by TurboNitroMonkey

Good morning! According to USPS, Your package arrived yesterday afternoon. I hope everything arrived safely and in precisely as intact as it left here.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:36 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Thankye kindly x2. Much appreciated.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:06 pm
by Dcastle

Awesome, thanks a lot. Welcome to bartertown by the way. I'll have that Cyriss all shipped out for you within 2 business days of receiving the Cygnar stuff.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:40 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Sent!
USPS.com Tracking number is 9114 9011 5981 5080 3991 31.
They're estimating arrival to you Monday.

There ya have it. I included all the cards I had for them, including a new deck fresh off the shelf, I don't think I ever removed a card from it.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:00 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Replying from my phone right now. I'm out and about on errands, your new models in tow. They'll be shipped in the next hour or three, and I'll have a confirmation number for you shortly thereafter.
Thank you so much for your patience. Working weekends is inconvenient.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:57 am
by Dcastle

Any luck on shipping?
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:22 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Awesome. Thank you very much!
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:06 pm
by Dcastle

No problem. Thanks for letting me know. I came across an extra battlebox worth of contents for Cyriss that I won't have any business keeping so I'm throwing them in with the stuff I'm sending you free of charge.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:02 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Just touching base and letting you know I'm not dead yet. I've got everything set aside and mostly packaged up, save for improvising a little bit more protective whatever so I can hopefully get everything to you unbroken as possible despite the horrors of long distance shipping. Tomorrow's an all-hands-on-deck sorta day at work for Columbus Day, instead of my day off, so like I said, I'll be shipping everything tuesday mid/late AM.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:31 am
by TurboNitroMonkey

Mine's

Steve Shaughnessy
3955 N Murray Ave #705
Shorewood, WI 53211

My next day off of work is Tuesday, so I'll ship it out then, if that works for you.
Pleasure doing business, sir.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:24 am
by Dcastle

Yes I have cards for everything. I'm okay with that trade. My address is;

David Castle
1432 Reynolds St.
Augusta, GA, 30901
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:52 am
by TurboNitroMonkey

OK. Sounds good to me. My cygnar for your listed CoC minus the angels and aurora plus the skorne dice and tokens? Do you have all the cards? I do for the cygnar.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:47 pm
by Dcastle

I guess I could just trade for all of it. I forgot to edit my posting earlier. I don't have Aurora, or the angels anymore. I have all the rest of the stuff though.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:25 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Hmm... How do you mean in my favor? If I'm going to go into CoC I'm going to want the lot of it really. Your suggestions?
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:03 pm
by Dcastle

Well I really don't need all of that extra stuff honestly. I would however be willing to trade a little in your favor if you wanted to split the lot. From that list I certainly want;

Archduke Ruinwood
Full Sword Knights +UA
Full Precursor Knights +UA
Gallant
Ol' Rowdy

That still leaves you with a lot of Cygnar so you can keep playing them.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:24 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Hokay, so, here is the inventory:

Full unit sword knights with UA
Full unit precursor knights with UA
Full unit stormblades with UA (no WAs)
Full unit stormguard
Full unit gunmages with officer
Black 13th

Stryker I
Stryker II
Nemo I

Archduke Alain Runewood
Female junior warcaster
Rhupert Carvolo
Stormsmith x 3

Ol' Rowdy
Gallant
Thunderhead
Magnetized Plastic Heavy x2 (With full arms loadouts for both). Real clean jobs on magnetizing too.
Cyclone
Lancer
Charger

And everything is bare metal save for one of the plastic jacks was primed before I got it. But its a clean, smooth job of white primer.

And all the cards of course. (Though I don't have the tokens or dice, I was using my khador odds and ends in the meanwhile, shame on me.)

So no Connie herself, or Versh apparently. (I picked up most of this lot in a trade from an IRL friend at the local store about 2 years ago, and then had a 2ish year siesta from gaming thanks to the job making me work on the usual Wm/H day.

Would you be willing to do ALL my Cygnar, for ALL your Convergence, plus the Skorne dice and tokens straight up? You have a few more jacks than I do, but I have a bunch more infantry, so it seems to be a wash to me. Thanks for your patience. I have long hours on fridays.

-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:27 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

I believe I have everything you listed save for the 2nd unit of precursors. Allow me a bit to get a full inventory. I'm still at work for another couple hours.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:18 pm
by Dcastle

Sure thing. You've got top priority for trades right now. I'd really like to get ol rowdy if I get gallant aswell. Ideally I'd like to get, if you have them;

Connie
Halarn versh
Archduke Alain runewood
Gallant and rowdy
Precursor and UA x2
Sword knights and UA
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:02 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

Well I'd like the skorne dice for sure. Are you willing to wait a day or so for me to type up an inventory to see if I have enough cygnar for a straight up cygnar for CoC trade, or something of the sort?
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:57 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

I have a decent start to a Constance Blaize army... swordsman, precursors, gallant, rowdy, plus another half dozen jacks, and some odds and ends, b13, the strykers, the nemos. Wasn't reallllllly looking to part with them, but I could for the right price (or skorne, legion, or khador bits, but iI'm starting to narrow in on what I still need of those factions.) But$35 for the dice & tin I find acceptable. i can likely get you a full cygnar inventory in the next couple days.
-Steve
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:48 pm
by Dcastle

Connie is my FAVORITE caster. And I'd love to have a 35pt tier 4 list.
Re: Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:44 pm
by TurboNitroMonkey

I have a decent start to a Constance Blaize army... swordsman, precursors, gallant, rowdy, plus another half dozen jacks, and some odds and ends, b13, the strykers, the nemos. Wasn't reallllllly looking to part with them, but I could for the right price (or skorne, legion, or khador bits, but iI'm starting to narrow in on what I still need of those factions.) But$35 for the dice & tin I find acceptable. i can likely get you a full cygnar inventory in the next couple days.
-Steve
Skorne dice
Sent: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:23 pm
by Dcastle

Hey I value the dice at $35 cash or trade. Do you have other cygnar models besides the ones I'm looking for?

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16391
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:35 pm

Moving this to the BTR forum. If he kept something of yours, that's theft & worse than a backout.
Unfortunately, with the RCO format, that's all I've got.


Eric

-Also, added "BTR" to the title.
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Dcastle ( -20 )
New Trader
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:23 pm

Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by Dcastle » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:25 am

The foam trays were used as packing material and weren't included in the trade we agreed upon.
They were discarded after I fulfilled all obligations on my side of the trade.
I won't replace or reimburse them at this time.

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Ollieb ( 86 )
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by Ollieb » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:56 am

Your obligations were to complete the trade as agreed or return the OP his property in the condition shipped to you. Since you did neither, what leads you to believe you fulfilled anything?

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:45 am

Dcastle wrote:The foam trays were used as packing material and weren't included in the trade we agreed upon.
They were discarded after I fulfilled all obligations on my side of the trade.
I won't replace or reimburse them at this time.

This is Bull, and you know it. You didn't discard them. They're foam trays. Even if not using them for the original army, they're still ultimlately usable. Foam trays are a product, not packing materials.

By BTown standards, you need to make good on these or your BTR is still unresolved.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Dcastle ( -20 )
New Trader
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:23 pm

Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by Dcastle » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:56 pm

They were thrown out. They were Blu pluck foam trays with most of the foam plucked or covered in hairs/fuzz. I use battlefoam only so I had no use for them. Since we are arguing about packing materials and foam trays I say I want everything I packed his miniatures in back as the weren't part of the trade.

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starslayer ( 558 )
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Location: Pennsylvania,USA

Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by starslayer » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:05 am

Dcastle wrote:They were thrown out. They were Blu pluck foam trays with most of the foam plucked or covered in hairs/fuzz. I use battlefoam only so I had no use for them. Since we are arguing about packing materials and foam trays I say I want everything I packed his miniatures in back as the weren't part of the trade.

Return your packing materials when you didn't return his? Yeah sure, pay the shipping back to you first.

Your attitude is a disgrace. Traders like you don't belong here. Hopefully the negative references you have so rightfully received will warn others.

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Ollieb ( 86 )
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by Ollieb » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:28 pm

Dcastle wrote:They were thrown out. They were Blu pluck foam trays with most of the foam plucked or covered in hairs/fuzz. I use battlefoam only so I had no use for them. Since we are arguing about packing materials and foam trays I say I want everything I packed his miniatures in back as the weren't part of the trade.
You don't get it do you? It isn't the fact that you didn't return the trays but rather you failed to uphold your end of the trade so opted to send his items back. But in doing so you packed his property so poorly that everything broke in transit. Not sending the trays back wouldn't be the issue if you had taken the time to use something more than tissue or toilet paper to wrap them and included at least a bit of padding.

Let me ask you this. Would you have been OK, assuming your intent was not to scam, if the box initially came to you packed the way you packed it and everything broken or would you have thanked him and sent your side anyway?

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:04 pm

Sorry, Ollieb, but you are incorrect.
Not returning the trays WOULD still be an issue. They are a product, plain and simple. They are not packing foam, peanuts, air pillows or bubble wrap. They are product.
That they were plucked or covered in hair doesn't matter. I've had hair on my foam. It removes easily.


Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

PhillyT ( 178 )
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by PhillyT » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:06 am

I honestly hadn't realized the packing material, if not listed as a trade item, was an item I should be aware of as something to retain! But I suppose I never revived anything that seemed like it would be worth keeping. Good to know for the future.

Of course, had the deal been completed properly, it would be a mute point.

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16391
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Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:44 pm

Has there been any forward momentum on this? If not, I'll happily make a phone call.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

AnIrishGamer ( 70 )
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Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:18 pm

Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by AnIrishGamer » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:58 am

I can't BELIEVE this guy is still able to be here. HOW is this possible? I'm adding this here because I feel it has to be evidence in Banning this guy and pursuing legal action however you (Mods) Can. I'll tell you one thing, I won't ever be dealing with a new Btowner again as they could be ReExile/Dcastle. Here is what just transpired.
---------------------------------------------------------
The Trade you took as Rex and didn't pay for

Sent: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:48 pm
by AnIrishGamer
Magikalmemories has told me you are Rexexile and that I need to get int ouch with you to give you the opportunity to make good on the deal you worked for the Retribution that you never sent and took the money for. I need this resolved as well as the other traders you have bad deals with if you don't want us pushing to try and get you banned again.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: The Trade you took as Rex and didn't pay for

Sent: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:51 pm
by Dcastle
Banning me obviously won't prevent me from coming back if I want to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean WTF? He took me and a buddy for 100 Bucks. And now this. Something has to be done.
Don't ask me to send paypal payment as a gift if you have bad feedback.

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16391
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by MagickalMemories » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:46 pm

I PMed him. We'll see what's up.
I played nice once. I won't do it again.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

TurboNitroMonkey ( 2 )
New Trader
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Dcastle - Backout, return product broken, minor theft

Post by TurboNitroMonkey » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:15 am

Dcastle wrote:They were thrown out. They were Blu pluck foam trays with most of the foam plucked or covered in hairs/fuzz. I use battlefoam only so I had no use for them. Since we are arguing about packing materials and foam trays I say I want everything I packed his miniatures in back as the weren't part of the trade.
There were two blue pluck foam trays for the infantry densely packed 2 to a cell, with pluck foam scraps between them. There was one full size battlefoam pluck tray with the warjacks in it. I consider it well worth the loss if he gets BTR'd and nobody ever has to deal with him here again.

If he wants the materials he packed the miniatures he returned to me back, I still have it, they're the sheets of paper towelling wrapping the completely broken models in the pictures I took and included with the report. I'll happily send them back if he sends back the foam. Lower rating sends first. (/end sarcasm)

But I consider the case resolved. He returned what I sent save for the foam, shattered and broken but repairable given say 6 hours, a bottle of glue, and a bottle of rum. I'm writing the foam off as a loss. Life goes on. Close the case, I request no additional compensation or action at this time.

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