BTR- Richard Starr aka Loones27 - Resolved

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Zaxon ( 34 )
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BTR- Richard Starr aka Loones27 - Resolved

Post by Zaxon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 pm

After a delay due to demands at work, I sent Richard his three Hordes hardcovers (Primal Mk II and two Forces of Hordes books), plus two that I added at no extra charge (Evolution and Metamorphosis). Delivery confirmation number 0311 1660 0002 3857 7356, shipped Thursday, September 22nd, delivered Saturday, September 24th to Jacksonville, Florida. On Friday, September 23rd received chargeback notice from Paypal...Richard not only took back his payment, but also generated a $20 fee on my end. Now he has both his $71 and the books, and I am out $91. Paypal is working to recover my funds, but it appears he has not posted since (at least as Loones27).
"There must be a God," said the goldfish. "Otherwise who changes the water?"

loones27 ( -10 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by loones27 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:08 pm

The items were originally purchased on Sept 4th with assurance that the items would be shipped out in a few days. I followed up with him on the 13th and I was again assured that the items were on the way and that he would send me a confirmation when he returned to work. I heard no reply even though the messaging system showed the items were read. I attempted to contact him again on the 16th and the 19th. With my last message i stated that I would be initiating a charge back with paypal/credit card. The items conveniently shipped the same day I submitted my charge back. When I did receive the items I promptly canceled the investigation with paypal. However because I initiated a charge back through my credit card company the funds were withdrawn from paypal and are awaiting for my credit card companies investigation to complete before the funds are reinstated. All of this could have been avoided if you would of just communicated openly. I can provide message logs and screenshots at request.

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Zaxon ( 34 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by Zaxon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:23 pm

By all means. I fully admit to a delay in shipping...unfortunately I work in two fields (education and health care) that have unpredictable demands on my schedule, and those two weeks were at the beginning of the fall semester. I do apologize for the delay, but that does not change the fact that you have failed to resolve the chargeback situation (instead leaving Paypal to have to actively pursue the matter with your credit card company), nor attempted to communicate with me once the books were received regarding the chargeback. The simple facts...you've received the books and have your money as well, and I am faced with a $20 charge due to your chargeback (and the fact that you did not include your shipping address or mark the payment as merchandise has affected the Paypal case, which is also suspect).

I am only providing the facts, and I appreciate you doing the same regarding my delay. I will leave it up to those reading this thread and viewing our individual feedback to decide intent.
"There must be a God," said the goldfish. "Otherwise who changes the water?"

umad ( 6 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by umad » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:48 am

There is gonna be some mod wrath coming yall's way if you don't post your full PM logs. Just Sayin

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porkuslime ( 3086 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by porkuslime » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:58 am

And.. as umad says..

You will BOTH need to provide all PMs for this BTR. Zaxon to show valid transaction, as well as Loones27 to back up his side of events.

Zaxon, in your second post, you made no mention of the PMs from Loones27 regarding trying to reach you.

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If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

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loones27 ( -10 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by loones27 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:59 am

Below are quotes of our messages. All contacts from Zaxon to me stopped on Sept 13th.

Original message. Including purchase
Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:08 pm
by Zaxon
Payment received, Richard...my thanks! I'll have them in the mail mid-week (due to the holiday), and will PM you when they are on their way. Do you have any use for the Mk I books? I'll add them to the box if you do.

Regards,
Michael

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:45 pm
by loones27
Payment sent. Shipping address. [My Shipping Address]

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:07 pm
by Zaxon
That works..sorry if I misread your message.

Regards,
Michael

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:03 pm
by loones27
Sorry I meant three books the Primal MK2, Skorne, and Trollbloods books. $71 shipped sound good?

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:56 pm
by Zaxon
Those two books at $20 each plus $10.95 for flat rate priority mail would be $50.95. If that works, my paypal address is {His Email Address]. I'll PM you with a delivery confirmation number once they are on their way.

Regards,
Michael
My follow ups.
Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:07 pm
by Zaxon
They are on their way...I will get you a delivery confirmation number as soon as I'm back in my office.

Regards,
Michael

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:34 am
by loones27
Any update with these items?

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:20 pm
by Zaxon
The added lore is about all they are good for at this point (and the art). If you don't have them, I'll throw them in the box for you to add to your collection.

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:11 pm
by loones27
The only need I would have for them is for the added lore. But if you're looking for a new home for them they will be read. Thanks for the quick response.
Two additional follow ups with no response.
Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:27 pm
by loones27
I still have yet to receive the books or a shipping confirmation. My next step will be to contact PayPal and my credit card company about a fraudulent claim.

Re: Legion of Everblight Army/Hordes hardcovers for sale

Sent: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:19 pm
by loones27
Any update on this? The books have not arrived.
Paypals automated response to me canceling the charge back.
date Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 2:28 PM
subject Chargeback Inquiry Case # PP-001-494-216-835 - A-A001
mailed-by paypal.com
signed-by paypal.com
Important mainly because of the words in the message.

hide details Sep 24 (10 days ago)

Hello Richard,

We received your request to cancel a chargeback filed against this
transaction and we're contacting your credit card company about the
cancellation. We also recommend you notify your credit card company about
the cancellation to help move the process along.

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Zaxon ( 34 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by Zaxon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:16 am

The above is accurate. My second post doesn't mention Loones27's PMs because in my first post I mention that I was quite busy those two weeks, and repeated statements that "it is on it's way as soon as I get to the post office" aren't of much benefit (my intent was to ship the books when I said they were on their way on the 13th...unfortunately I was not able to leave work until after the post office closed up until the 22nd. I still do not see the relevance...I have provided the items as promised, and have not received payment for them. That seems pretty straightforward, but if moderator wrath is warranted, so be it.
"There must be a God," said the goldfish. "Otherwise who changes the water?"

loones27 ( -10 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by loones27 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:25 am

But instead of contacting me informing me of the delays or contacting me and informing me of the delays with paypal you choose to post a BTR. I promptly(same day) canceled the charge back through paypal. I don't see myself as an unreasonable person but assuming I would go out of my way to contact you after repeatedly getting no response from you seems far fetched. If paypal was giving you difficulties regarding your payment and something was needed from me I would have done what I could to resolve the issue. Regardless of the fact that my items were not shipped until I was actively seeking a refund from paypal and my credit card company.

loones27 ( -10 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by loones27 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:39 am

I just got off the phone with American Express and I have canceled the investigation with your payment. It was my understanding that because I canceled the investigation with paypal that AMEX would be informed. I know it is against BT rules to post a BTR as reprisal against other users. I regret not posting one previously as i wrongfully assumed that a major life event kept you from shipping the items. But seeing how you handled these events I see that you are un willing or unable to communicate with people directly.

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MagickalMemories ( 822 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:42 am

If you truly feel that a BTR is legit on another member, that is ALWAYS your option.
If you're concerned that it might be seen as retributive, thus earning you a ban, then run it by an Admin. basically, put together your BTR, then PM it to an Admin, asking for their input and verification of validity. Just because someone "beats you to the punch" doesn't mean that your reporting options are stripped.

Should you decide to PM *ME*, however, I would strongly advise you to (a) read my sig line then (b) read the guide I posted on posting BTR's before PMing me. : )


Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Zaxon ( 34 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by Zaxon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:46 am

I posted the BTR on October 3rd, a week and two days after you received the books (on Saturday, September 24th). That was after two telephone conversations with Paypal regarding the status of the chargeback (the second after Paypal listed the matter as "closed" since it was now in the hands of your credit card company...according to Paypal it has not been cancelled; please provide documentation of that, as neither of my telephone conversations included that information nor does the dispute history in Paypal). If you had contacted me after receipt of the books and said "hey, let's take care of the chargeback" this would be moot. Instead, you were content to have both the books and your money and generate a charge from your credit card company against me as well. Therein lies my problem. If the two week wait was that much of an inconvenience, I apologize (again). If you feel you need to leave a BTR, then do so...just be sure it includes the facts (there was a delay in shipping). That is all I have done.
"There must be a God," said the goldfish. "Otherwise who changes the water?"

loones27 ( -10 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by loones27 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:56 am

Proof of my cancellation with paypal(who states it will be passed to my CC company) was posted above. Quoted again below for clarity.
date Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 2:28 PM
subject Chargeback Inquiry Case # PP-001-494-216-835 - A-A001
mailed-by paypal.com
signed-by paypal.com
Important mainly because of the words in the message.

hide details Sep 24 (10 days ago)

Hello Richard,

We received your request to cancel a chargeback filed against this
transaction and we're contacting your credit card company about the
cancellation. We also recommend you notify your credit card company about
the cancellation to help move the process along.

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Zaxon ( 34 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by Zaxon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:33 pm

Screen shots from Paypal showing that no request was received to cancel on the 24th, and that the funds were "recovered" from me on the 29th, that tracking information was provided on the 24th (also the day of delivery), and that Paypal is still in the process of disputing the chargeback with the buyer's credit card company.

ImageImage
Image
"There must be a God," said the goldfish. "Otherwise who changes the water?"

loones27 ( -10 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by loones27 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:16 pm

I've provided proof that I canceled it through paypal on the 24th. Because you didn't contact me until now I didn't find out that you haven't received your funds till this thread was created. I contacted my credit card company last night in regards to this case. We can either continue to parade around swearing the other person is at fault or we can speak like people and accept paypal's customer service is bad and try to resolve this.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Zaxon ( 34 )
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Re: Richard Starr aka Loones27

Post by Zaxon » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:55 pm

I've not had problems with Paypal's customer service...in fact, before this affair I've found them remarkably responsive (more so than any bank or credit card company I've dealt with). Supposedly they are working to resolve the issue with your credit card company, which I've been told can take up to 75 days. If you've addressed the issue with them, I would hope that would expedite things. If you have a proposal for a resolution, I am open to it...so far my impression has been that due to the delay in shipping and communication, you the fact that you had both the books and money for them was somehow justified. From the screenshots I've provided, you can hopefully see why I was under the impression no action had been taken on your part.
"There must be a God," said the goldfish. "Otherwise who changes the water?"

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