BTR - Dragonfangs - Resolved

These BTR's have been resolved. The accused may or may not have been involved in the resolution. Familiarize yourself with this section as a preventative measure.

Moderator: Moderators

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:19 am

If this case consitutes a backout (where nothing exchanged hands and the only thing lost was time)
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=124653

The this must also consitute a backout on the part of Dan K.

I disagree that I misrepresented my model. I feel I sent exactly what was promised. I maintain there is nothing wrong with that model I sent.

Dan is refusing all reasonble offers for compensation, so he is being inflezable.
Dan's own demands are rediculous
Dan's renogotiation at this point is unhonerable.
Dan's Insistance on having every perfect bit is being unreasonable.

I would at the VERY LEAST expect you to rule that he needs to pay to return my model. Though again..... I CAN NOT SEE how it is not a backout on his part.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:37 am

reegsk wrote:I think I'm done here.
You are NOT done until you send me a package.
You going to need to man up, take some sliver of responsibility here, and pay the lousy $4 to send my model.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:03 am

I want to add that any person looking for an fair solution here would start with....
"I'm missing some bits I had hoped to use, do you happen to have those? can you send them to me?"

Dan goes right to $20, $25 more in trade (making $58 total in retail for a single infantry model), or pay him to mail it back.

Nobody would accept any of those options over a few mssing bits, especially when they were honorable and delivered what they promised (as I did).

I offered all but 1 missing bit, but he won't accept that because his intention with this whole post is to BACKOUT of a completely fair trade.
Set this straight

User avatar
Linrandir ( 108 )
Site Admin
Posts: 2210
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Hidden deep in the Webway
Contact:

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Linrandir » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:08 am

:rulez:
I remind all concerned parties of the following rule that you all agreed to abide by when you joined the site:
Rule 4a: You are also responsible for accurately describing all items that you are trading or selling.
That includes version, condition, assembly status, converted or not, painted or not, any missing pieces and any other information you think might be helpful. Failure to do so may result in the other party filing a Backout Trader or Bad Trader report against you.
Dragonfangs, you failed to describe the model accurately and thereby violated Rule 4a. The photos show the model is clearly a hodge-podge-missing-pieces-hackjob, and not a Chaos Chariot that one would buy from Games Workshop which is what your "description" implied. One does wonder if you had the original heads and tails, why did you not include them the first time around? This implies you knew quite well what you were sending was not correct, which leads to a follow-on question of "If this situation was reversed, would you want to receive that hodgepodge model in trade?"

You forget that Bartertown has a list of requirements for a Bad Trader Report (BTR), as well as a Backout/Deadbeat report and the fact we're discussing this situation indicates that the staff find the BTR criteria to be fulfilled. The fact that you were involved in a similar circumstance and the trader chose to file a backout vs. a BTR is not relevant.

You knew full well that what you had was not a proper chaos chariot and you sent it anyway - shoot, even if you weren't sure you could've sent him a photo or a more complete text description and asked "Is this the complete chariot?" so I find Reegsk's request that you pay for return shipping to be appropriate.

Oh...and to head off interpretive arguments (and right into the "LIN YOU ARE A BLOODY TYRANT" part of the discussion) I remind everyone of Rules #0 and #1. Namely, staff interpretation takes highest priority in dispute resolution and Play Fair.
New to Bartertown?
Read These Now!
Got ripped off?
Read This First!

Administrative Transparency: Anything you write me can and will be made public should I deem it necessary. Anything I write to you? Same deal. Fair is fair.

My Official Admin Messages have the :rulez: icon in front.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:39 am

I didn't add the other bits because they came from another model. I pulled them from a bits box to help resolve the issue.
With the replacement heads and tails I offered, there is only 1 small bit missing and that should be satisfactory.

I don't see what is so "hodge-podge" or "hack-job" about it. The condition of all the chariot parts is fine.

I'm going to send the prick his $4, but once again I feel you guys as the staff have gotten the call wrong.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:48 am

He need to send me his paypal info

reegsk ( 396 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1030
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Western Mass, USA

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by reegsk » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:51 am

I will PM it to you.

User avatar
Linrandir ( 108 )
Site Admin
Posts: 2210
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Hidden deep in the Webway
Contact:

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Linrandir » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:03 am

:rulez:
Dragonfangs wrote:I don't see what is so "hodge-podge" or "hack-job" about it. The condition of all the chariot parts is fine.
That's easy. It's not complete, especially if you only consider the parts of the chariot itself and not the substitutions. It's not what he would've gotten if he had bought it from GW or an independent retailer. The condition of each individual part may be undamaged, but in aggregate lies the problem. In this case the whole is far less than the sum of the parts. Literally.
Dragonfangs wrote:I didn't add the other bits because they came from another model. I pulled them from a bits box to help resolve the issue.
I apologize for my misunderstanding.
Dragonfangs wrote:I'm going to send the prick his $4,
See now, it's the rude name calling that will earn you a two week suspension if you do not apologize publicly, since you levied the insult publicly.
Dragonfangs wrote:but once again I feel you guys as the staff have gotten the call wrong.
That is of course your right to do so.
New to Bartertown?
Read These Now!
Got ripped off?
Read This First!

Administrative Transparency: Anything you write me can and will be made public should I deem it necessary. Anything I write to you? Same deal. Fair is fair.

My Official Admin Messages have the :rulez: icon in front.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:56 am

I'll appogize - but only because i'm too busy here right now to deal with a suspention.
Sorry Dan

I got to tell you though - It's caused I'm really pissed Lin.
It's unfair to judge the model without seeing it. If I sent the other bits it would have been almost complete. There is nothing wrong with it.

Making the single crew a deal breaker was Dan choice and there was no way to forsee that. This is a backout, he's just covering it up in other stuff.

Never-the-less
He has his $4 - I expect shipping tomorrow via USPS priority and it to arrive exactly as it pictured in this thread now.

MagickalMemories ( 822 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16356
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by MagickalMemories » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:34 am

You can be pissed at Lin, but I think you should be grateful. Apparently, he overlooked (generously or accidentally) the first time you called reegsk names:
Dragonfangs wrote:Your being an unreasonable baby and a cheap bastard all at once.
Send my things back.
Dragonfangs wrote:No - unassembled means I have all the parts to make the model. It does not mean every bit in the new kit, else that would be NEW.
New means just that. It means it's in new of like new condition.
If I bought a model, opened the box, and it was partially assembled, primered and stripped, I would NOT call that new.
You also don't see to understand the difference between "unassembled" and "disassembled." Something that's never been put together is UNassembled. If it was once together but has been taken apart, it's DISassembled.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:59 am

I never claimed new. I never claimed Like New.
As I never said it was new, I don't see how Dan can now insist it be NEW. To deny the offer for the few missing bit is doing just that.

Dan sent a 2nd PM to push this trade through.
He never stopped to ask questions. Knowing he is that picky, wouldn't it reason to INSURE it was new condition and not ASSUME it (as he admits to doing).

Occationaly people list things as stripped, but I've never seen anyone list anything as DISassembled.

I simply said it was unassembled, which I feel is accurate.

I sent it exactly how it came to me. There is nothing wrong with it. I really don't see what his problem is.
IF YOU PUT IT TOGETHER YOU HAVE A CHAOS CHARIOT. By Webster's defination that is unassembled.

UNASSEMBLED is a fair description. Dan should take some blame for not even asking about it, but this chump can't fork over $4 for his error when I'm already out to ship to him.
Instead he fabricates this tale of how the model is trashed beyond what was expected.

I don't think any of you would have a problem with that model had I traded it to you (I didn't when I got it from Chris)
I don't think any of you would have accepted his demands post shipment (especailly as presented)
I can't belive any of you support Dan based on the thread and the pics

Ironhide ( 92 )
Technicolor Messiah
Posts: 6468
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:41 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Ironhide » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:12 am

Let's not get into semantics. The two parties involved should just work to resolve this amicably.

That being said, it does not sit well with me that reegsk can basically hold Dragonfang's model as a hostage so as to get what he wants. If the model is unacceptable, then send it back and the deal is null and void.
"You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need." - The Rolling Stones
FBI Internet Fraud Center http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/
USPS Mail Fraud http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms ... laint.aspx

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

reegsk ( 396 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1030
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Western Mass, USA

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by reegsk » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:15 am

I respectfully disagree, IH. I'm not holding his model hostage, I simply refuse to pay any amount, even an insignificant one, to correct Dragonfangs' mistake. Bill and I made a contract, whether verbal or written (the only reason I would say it is not "written" is that we did not, technically, sign it), and that contract is legally binding. By misrepresenting the goods he had for trade, Bill breached our contract, which thereby makes it null and void. If he is the one who violated our contract, why should I have to lose money on this travesty if I can avoid it? And be honest, IH, given his attitude and behavior, do you think I could have reasonably expected that, had I shipped things back at my cost, he would have refunded the money after the fact? He made a lie of omission, and I feel that lying to, misleading and, quite frankly, insulting trade partners really degrades the trust this site and sites like it are based on.

Bill, I resent your assertion in your PayPal note that I am a "dishonorable piece of crap". I am returning your model to you in the condition I received it, I'm just refusing to pay for it. And I cannot ship today, as I go from one job to the other on Fridays and have little time in between. I will ship tomorrow morning, which I think is fair considering that I did not receive your payment until I woke up this morning. I will post the Delivery Confirmation number in this thread upon my return. All of the pieces have been returned to the box and it has been sealed, so do not attempt to claim otherwise. Additionally, if you would like to purchase insurance, please contact me and send the appropriate funds by tomorrow morning. Otherwise you will have declined insurance, and will be unable to claim damages sustained in mailing.

Oh, and one last thing -- I need your mailing address.

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:58 pm

Anything not listed as NEW is obviously going to be somewhat USED. I never said New, or Mint. I omitted nothing. THERE IS NO LIE.

Regardless, you and I both know there is nothing wrong with that model Dan. At worse it was lightly used. It will still make someone a fine chariot model.

You came to me with unreasonable BAIT AND SWITCH demands and then complained about the tone of my reaction.
You refused any resonable resolution.
You did hold it hostage as you refused to return it without payment.

I hope you choke on the 400 pennies

Dragonfangs ( 158 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Re: BTR Dragonfangs

Post by Dragonfangs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:59 pm

address sent via PM

Locked

Return to “Resolved Bad Trader Reports”