Dec 13th I agreed to purchase the Flames of War US lot posted on Bartertown:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=126418
Although this link appears to have been edited to remove reference to the US lot I purchased. The original US portion is listed below.
American over $500 retail, asking $250 shipped for the lot in the US REDUCED PRICE
http://tinypic.com/r/242bj9j/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2d6s851/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2n1flvr/7
•M3 Lee, bare, assembled
•2 Tent Objective
•4 M5 Stewarts, NiP (1 opened, but all there)
•6 M3 Halftracks, assembled, bare
•3 M4 81mm mortar carriers, bare, assembled
•6 Shermans, painted or partially painted
•4 M24 Chaffee tanks, 3 painted, 1 primed
•3 M26 Pershing tanks, painted
•3 Priests, painted
•4 M12 Self-propelled 155mm artillery
•M13 Self-propelled AA (twin .50 cal)
•6 tank crew stands, primed
•3 light mortar teams, painted on small stands
•10 medium 81mm mortar stands, primed gray
•4 Heavy Chemical Mortar stands
•8 stands worth of LMGs
•4 stands worth of HMGs
•15 Command teams, 9 painted, based
•3 Observation teams, painted, 2 based
•9 Bazooka teams, painted, based
•37 infantry stands, painted, based, 2 are primed
•8 jeeps, mostly primed
•2 jeeps w/ trailers
•2 GMC 2½-ton trucks
If the tinypic links are still active you'll note that the items are all shown in foam trays, none appear to be damaged and zero mention of any damage in the text of the ad.
VonTed wrote:Argh. I can't help myself. If they are still there, $225 for the US. Asking price
SOunds good.
My paypal is: IDgraphics@gmail.com
Send it as a personal payment, so that I don't get hit with fees, and send your address via PM and I can get it out tomorrow if you pay today.
Thanks!
Anton[/quote]
I PayPal'd the requested amount, while also paying PayPal fees as he had asked for a total of $231.83 the same day.
Items arrived Friday, Dec 17th. So far everything is OK.
I finally begin to open box and inspect late Dec 17th, finding extensive damage I PM'd getupandgo Dec 18th.
Long story short, all I am requesting is 100% reimbursement including return shipping. He will not agree to this
Section 2: Proof
I will just post the entire PM traffic (sorry – reverse chronological order, but that is how it is displayed in Bartertown's message history). But essentially the first few PM's sum up the exchange between us:
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:23 am
by VonTed
Well I disagree, the expectation of merchandise arriving safely is obviously implied.
I need to research the bad trader section of Bartertown, I do not beleive you are acting in good faith whatsoever and am becoming increasingly disappointed in this. I do not feel that receiving a box of largely broken items is my fault nor responsibility. You have made zero effort to resolve this satisfactorily.
getupandgo wrote:
VonTed wrote:I am willing to split shipping with you. Do you need pictures to show you that this was not packaged well, that this is in fact due to your negligence in shipping? I certainly do not feel that I should be be out any money due to this. But I am willing to split shipping to get this over in a manner I feel appropriate.
Shipping back to me is your responsibility. I'm not a store, and even most stores don't cover return shipping on items. I"m offering a full refund, which I feel is generous. Basically, you had a chance to look over the items and have decided you're not happy with them, so you're free to return them, but it's at your expense.
Please let me know when you get them out,
Thanks,
Anton
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:39 am
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:I am willing to split shipping with you. Do you need pictures to show you that this was not packaged well, that this is in fact due to your negligence in shipping? I certainly do not feel that I should be be out any money due to this. But I am willing to split shipping to get this over in a manner I feel appropriate.
Shipping back to me is your responsibility. I'm not a store, and even most stores don't cover return shipping on items. I"m offering a full refund, which I feel is generous. Basically, you had a chance to look over the items and have decided you're not happy with them, so you're free to return them, but it's at your expense.
Please let me know when you get them out,
Thanks,
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:20 am
by VonTed
I am willing to split shipping with you. Do you need pictures to show you that this was not packaged well, that this is in fact due to your negligence in shipping? I certainly do not feel that I should be be out any money due to this. But I am willing to split shipping to get this over in a manner I feel appropriate.
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:26 pm
by getupandgo
Shipping back is your responsibility. I packed them well and shipped them to you priority with tracking at my expense, it's your obligation to do so on the return voyage if you're not happy. Please package well to ensure no further damage.
Please let me know when they get in the mail.
Thanks,
Anton
VonTed wrote:Yes I did feel I had a fair deal on these items, however I expect what I purchased to arrive in a safe manner and not have extensive damage. This is more than a few machine guns and minor repair. Not a single vehicle arrived without damage (expect those still in the battelfront packaging).
Let's be clear, I expect to fully reimbursed for what I paid including paypal fees ($231.83) which I picked up per your request and for return shipping ($ TBD). I would also expect to be reimbursed prior to shipment, just as you were.
Agreeable?
Thank you,
Ted
getupandgo wrote:Sorry, I can't do anything on this. You got a fantastic deal on it, and if you can't re-glue some machine guns and take care of minor repairs, feel free to send it back and I'll give you a refund.
My address is:
Anton Z
2420 Calumet
Houston, TX 77004
Let me know when you get it in the mail.
Thanks,
Anton
VonTed wrote:Actually they were not packaged well. The box arrived with no external damage, you can't roll up tanks, jeep and other vehicles together in thin bubble wrap and expect no damage during transit. I wouldn't carry them in my car to a game this way and expect no damage, let alone tightly packed with many other items in a small box. And piling infantry stand in ziplock bags is not safe transit as well. This is not USPS's fault, it is your method of packaging.
I would prefer to come to some equitable solution since I do rather want the minis, I just now have to spend a ton of time in repair and still not likely have all the pieces as they should be after the damage. If we cannot figure something out, then I'd expect 100% reimbursement (including paypal fees that I paid as you requested and return shipping).
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:37 pm
by VonTed
Yes I did feel I had a fair deal on these items, however I expect what I purchased to arrive in a safe manner and not have extensive damage. This is more than a few machine guns and minor repair. Not a single vehicle arrived without damage (expect those still in the battelfront packaging).
Let's be clear, I expect to fully reimbursed for what I paid including paypal fees ($231.83) which I picked up per your request and for return shipping ($ TBD). I would also expect to be reimbursed prior to shipment, just as you were.
Agreeable?
Thank you,
Ted
getupandgo wrote:Sorry, I can't do anything on this. You got a fantastic deal on it, and if you can't re-glue some machine guns and take care of minor repairs, feel free to send it back and I'll give you a refund.
My address is:
Anton Z
2420 Calumet
Houston, TX 77004
Let me know when you get it in the mail.
Thanks,
Anton
VonTed wrote:Actually they were not packaged well. The box arrived with no external damage, you can't roll up tanks, jeep and other vehicles together in thin bubble wrap and expect no damage during transit. I wouldn't carry them in my car to a game this way and expect no damage, let alone tightly packed with many other items in a small box. And piling infantry stand in ziplock bags is not safe transit as well. This is not USPS's fault, it is your method of packaging.
I would prefer to come to some equitable solution since I do rather want the minis, I just now have to spend a ton of time in repair and still not likely have all the pieces as they should be after the damage. If we cannot figure something out, then I'd expect 100% reimbursement (including paypal fees that I paid as you requested and return shipping).
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:14 pm
by getupandgo
Sorry, I can't do anything on this. You got a fantastic deal on it, and if you can't re-glue some machine guns and take care of minor repairs, feel free to send it back and I'll give you a refund.
My address is:
Anton Z
2420 Calumet
Houston, TX 77004
Let me know when you get it in the mail.
Thanks,
Anton
VonTed wrote:Actually they were not packaged well. The box arrived with no external damage, you can't roll up tanks, jeep and other vehicles together in thin bubble wrap and expect no damage during transit. I wouldn't carry them in my car to a game this way and expect no damage, let alone tightly packed with many other items in a small box. And piling infantry stand in ziplock bags is not safe transit as well. This is not USPS's fault, it is your method of packaging.
I would prefer to come to some equitable solution since I do rather want the minis, I just now have to spend a ton of time in repair and still not likely have all the pieces as they should be after the damage. If we cannot figure something out, then I'd expect 100% reimbursement (including paypal fees that I paid as you requested and return shipping).
getupandgo wrote:
VonTed wrote:I received the box with the FoW US items, this was good. However I am very disappointed on the condition upon arrival. While I have not done an inventory of what was in the box I did quickly note that there was only one tent objective and none of the foam trays pictured in the photos provided.
There was extensive damage on nearly all the vehicles and many of the infantry. Not a single jeep has its mounted MG still attached, many tanks had copulas broken off, tank barrels broken off or bent. One mortar team has lost its mortar barrel.... again I have not even really done a full inventory just a quick look late last night, but I am very disappointed of the condition of these miniatures on arrival and hope to come to some sort of arrangement. I feel receiving these in this conditional is unacceptable.
Ted,
They were all packaged well,and I can't be held accountable for mis-handling by the USPS. If you'd like to return it, that's fine.
Let me know what you'd like to do.
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:08 am
by VonTed
Actually they were not packaged well. The box arrived with no external damage, you can't roll up tanks, jeep and other vehicles together in thin bubble wrap and expect no damage during transit. I wouldn't carry them in my car to a game this way and expect no damage, let alone tightly packed with many other items in a small box. And piling infantry stand in ziplock bags is not safe transit as well. This is not USPS's fault, it is your method of packaging.
I would prefer to come to some equitable solution since I do rather want the minis, I just now have to spend a ton of time in repair and still not likely have all the pieces as they should be after the damage. If we cannot figure something out, then I'd expect 100% reimbursement (including paypal fees that I paid as you requested and return shipping).
getupandgo wrote:
VonTed wrote:I received the box with the FoW US items, this was good. However I am very disappointed on the condition upon arrival. While I have not done an inventory of what was in the box I did quickly note that there was only one tent objective and none of the foam trays pictured in the photos provided.
There was extensive damage on nearly all the vehicles and many of the infantry. Not a single jeep has its mounted MG still attached, many tanks had copulas broken off, tank barrels broken off or bent. One mortar team has lost its mortar barrel.... again I have not even really done a full inventory just a quick look late last night, but I am very disappointed of the condition of these miniatures on arrival and hope to come to some sort of arrangement. I feel receiving these in this conditional is unacceptable.
Ted,
They were all packaged well,and I can't be held accountable for mis-handling by the USPS. If you'd like to return it, that's fine.
Let me know what you'd like to do.
Anton
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:52 am
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:I received the box with the FoW US items, this was good. However I am very disappointed on the condition upon arrival. While I have not done an inventory of what was in the box I did quickly note that there was only one tent objective and none of the foam trays pictured in the photos provided.
There was extensive damage on nearly all the vehicles and many of the infantry. Not a single jeep has its mounted MG still attached, many tanks had copulas broken off, tank barrels broken off or bent. One mortar team has lost its mortar barrel.... again I have not even really done a full inventory just a quick look late last night, but I am very disappointed of the condition of these miniatures on arrival and hope to come to some sort of arrangement. I feel receiving these in this conditional is unacceptable.
Ted,
They were all packaged well,and I can't be held accountable for mis-handling by the USPS. If you'd like to return it, that's fine.
Let me know what you'd like to do.
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:38 am
by VonTed
I received the box with the FoW US items, this was good. However I am very disappointed on the condition upon arrival. While I have not done an inventory of what was in the box I did quickly note that there was only one tent objective and none of the foam trays pictured in the photos provided.
There was extensive damage on nearly all the vehicles and many of the infantry. Not a single jeep has its mounted MG still attached, many tanks had copulas broken off, tank barrels broken off or bent. One mortar team has lost its mortar barrel.... again I have not even really done a full inventory just a quick look late last night, but I am very disappointed of the condition of these miniatures on arrival and hope to come to some sort of arrangement. I feel receiving these in this conditional is unacceptable.
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:16 am
by VonTed
Excellent, I look forward to getting it and playing with the new toys!
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:01 am
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:
my address edited out
Payment has been sent.
Thank you,
Ted
Ted,
I'm mailing your package this morning. I added in all the extra bits I had, and some counters and other random stuff.
Enjoy it!
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:20 pm
by VonTed
my address edited out
Payment has been sent.
Thank you,
Ted
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:59 pm
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:Argh. I can't help myself. If they are still there, $225 for the US. Asking price
SOunds good.
My paypal is: IDgraphics@gmail.com
Send it as a personal payment, so that I don't get hit with fees, and send your address via PM and I can get it out tomorrow if you pay today.
Thanks!
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:36 pm
by VonTed
Argh. I can't help myself. If they are still there, $225 for the US. Asking price
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:13 am
by VonTed
Fair enough, thanks.
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:03 am
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:Wow, I had no idea the 6mm were that expensive. I was guessing more like $20-30!
I guess I am having a difficult time talking myself into the US force since I actually don't play all that much. So... I can talk myself in to for $200, my comfort zone I guess - this would end up being my Christmas present.
If you don't want to sell for that I understand, my offer stands for a couple days.
Thank you,
Ted
Hey Ted,
They're already well under half off, and I have 2 other parties who have contacted me about them, so I'm guessing that they'll probably take it at my asking price. If those fall through, I'll get in touch.
ANton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:54 am
by VonTed
Wow, I had no idea the 6mm were that expensive. I was guessing more like $20-30!
I guess I am having a difficult time talking myself into the US force since I actually don't play all that much. So... I can talk myself in to for $200, my comfort zone I guess - this would end up being my Christmas present.
If you don't want to sell for that I understand, my offer stands for a couple days.
Thank you,
Ted
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:00 pm
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:Toss in the 6mm buildings for $225?
The 6mm buildings retail for right around $300 total... sorry, no can do.
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:03 pm
by VonTed
Toss in the 6mm buildings for $225?
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:39 pm
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:How about $200 shipped, I can PayPal you today.
I just lowered the price, so it's firm for now. I have some other interest in the americans, so if you do want them, let me know asap.
Thanks!
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:11 pm
by VonTed
How about $200 shipped, I can PayPal you today.
Quote getupandgo
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:04 pm
by getupandgo
VonTed wrote:Subject: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
I am thinking I may be interested in US forces, what mfg are they? Are they all Battlefront, Flames of War minis? Or are others in there as well?
Thank you,
Ted
Hey Ted,
Yes, they're all battlefront... Let me know if you'd like to buy it.
Anton
Quote VonTed
Re: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
Sent: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:19 am
by VonTed
Subject: Selling Flames of War British and U.S. lots cheap. +more
I am thinking I may be interested in US forces, what mfg are they? Are they all Battlefront, Flames of War minis? Or are others in there as well?
Thank you,
Ted
Pics of items on delivery
http://tinypic.com/r/aa9lbl/7
http://tinypic.com/r/20b1ix0/7
http://tinypic.com/r/24mi97k/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2rei54w/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2v80gmg/7
I was expecting them to arrive safely and rather expected them to arrive in the foam trays they were advertised in.
Section 3: Supporting Information
No real additional information other than listed above.
Section 4: Follow Through
I've tried repeated to come to what I believe a fair result is. What I really wanted was some compensation for the highly damaged minis, and the foam trays they were listed with. I never even completed the inventory of the items to check for completeness, once I saw the damage I stopped opening bags.
What I want to settle for is $231.83 + return shipping. Refund prior to return shipping to ensure good faith (perhaps 50/50 before/after shipping). Not outrageous I think.
Thank you,
VonTed