How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

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kturock ( 566 )
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How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by kturock » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:44 pm

Now, here's a suggestion to new sellers or people buying from new sellers on how to make sure you're not getting ripped off, or trying to rip people off.

While researching [yes I research and usually think before I post] another topic, I just remembered the safest way to buy from a new or low level trader: C.O.D.
Yes it costs a bit, $5.50 for $50, but it's 100% safe. It includes insurance, and if purchased online, you get free d/c and email notification.

Here's the chart for costs from USPS.com.

http://www.usps.com/prices/collect-on-d ... prices.htm

Collect on Delivery Prices
Have your customers pay for merchandise and postage with cash or a personal check at the time of delivery with Collect on Delivery Service (COD). COD also provides you the added security of insurance coverage against loss or damage of up to $1,000. COD is not available for international mail or for mail addressed to military Post Office (APO/FPO) addresses.
Get the price by value of the delivery and additional services listed here.

Collect on Delivery (COD) Prices
Amount to be collected or insurance coverage
desired, whichever is higher1 Price
$0.01 to $50 $5.50
$50.01 to $100 $6.80
$100.01 to $200 $8.10
$200.01 to $300 $9.40
$300.01 to $400 $10.70
$400.01 to $500 $12.00
$500.01 to $600 $13.30
$600.01 to $700 $14.60
$700.01 to $800 $15.90
$800.01 to $900 $17.20
$900.01 to $1,000 $18.50

The buyer only pays if the amount is agreed upon. If it's not what you agreed to, then refuse it and the seller loses the fees for postage and fees.
The seller says how much $ he wants, this can include the C.O.D. fee as well as the postage. The buyer can't change the amount; it's either all or nothing.

So, how is it done?
The seller pays for postage and C.O.D. fees when the box/item is shipped. The buyer either pays the letter carrier cash, who then turns in the $. Then a clerk buys a USPS money order and mails it to the seller. [the letter carrier, clerk and anyone else who handles it signs for it. It's almost as secure as registered. If the $ or item turns up missing, the last person to handle it, who signed for it, has to pay for it out of their own pocket. it's also grounds to get fired.] The buyer can pay by personal check, if the seller agrees. It's then sent out to the seller.

So the item doesn't get paid for until the box is delivered. It has insurance. Now because it was sent C.O.D. if the seller rips or tries to rip you off, you have more proof that the items are missing or wrong. The box gets a better visual inspection than most other packages upon delivery. It not only gets signed for, but paid for at delivery. No worrying about it being 'left on the door or at the wrong house, apt. or box.

You get paid cash. No worrying about paypal disputes.
The C.O.D. fees cover a signature, insurance, purchasing the money order and postage to get the MO sent to you.

Yes, it's a bit more of a hassle.
The buyer/addressee/reciever must be there to sign and pay for it, or go to the post office to do so. You must bring cash to pay for it. [I don't think you can use a charge card, debit cards are cash, since you're buying a money order.]
The seller/sender must pay for postage and fees up front and fill out a couple forms. But you get a money order [cash] back in the mail.

BUT... you know you're getting the package when it's received. You see the box when you sign and pay for it. If t's obviously damaged, you can point it out to the letter carrier or window clerk right then and there. No chance of it not being seen.
Now, if there's interanl damge, like when things aren't packaged/packed properly, you won't see it, but might hear it when you lift or shake the box. If the items aren't as described, that's still between you and the seller. There's never any way to protect against that. [ the ol brick instead of a stereo speaker trick.]

Yes, it's a bit of a hassle, and maybe alot to ask of new sellers or people dealing with new sellers, but it's about the only thing short of a face-to-face meeting to make sure you getting the items when paid for.

It doesn't work for international mail. UPS offers C.O.D. also, but they only pay by check from UPS or a check from the buyer. I don't know if they offer it for internationally.

MAYBE WE CAN GET THE MODS/WATCHAMN TO MAKE THIS A STICKY.?!

A possible solution to a problem.
Last edited by kturock on Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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gpfredette ( 676 )
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by gpfredette » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:49 pm

Stickied.

I found this to be helpful and informative.

Let's please use this area to enhance our collective knowledge of posting/receiving packages in a safe and timely manner.

Thank you,
Gerry Fredette
Williams, AZ
Home of the Historic Grand Canyon Railroad

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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:17 pm

Years ago, I tried this quite a number of times.
For some odd reason, I could never get anyone to agree to buy OR sell this way.
I don't understand it, myself. Like kt said, it's a very secure way to buy & sell.

Eric
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by gpfredette » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:36 pm

kturock wrote:There is more that you can do, besides insurance and d/c; but you must send it priority mail. [or 1st class if it's under 8 ounces]

It's called registered mail. It's a major PIA to package. It MUST have all seams and openings taped closed WITH paper tape. NOT masking tape, but a special paper packaging/packing tape that you can almost anywhere.

Registered mails stats at and additional $10.60 plus postage, but includes insurance. Now, it doesn't include d/c, but it does. !st anytime you buy postage online via the usps website, you get free d/c, with the availability of getting free email notification. It gets scanned and signed for EVERY time it gets handled. It goes under lock and key. Everybody and I mean everybody who touches it or is near it signs for it. This is how USPS handles our pay checks. This is how USPS makes it deposits cash, checks et c. [have you ever seen a bank truck pull up to a USPS location?] It's under even more camera survilance. [every USPS facility is under 24 hour camera and/or personal observation. not the place to work if you're paranoid.]

So on to the biggest $ loss listed here, I calculated postage for a 20 pound package going across the US; FL to CA. It's a box thats 12x12x12. It's shipped registered with $1200 insurance. It cost $67.05, that includes $51.25 for postage and $15.80 for registering [which includes insurance]. Transit time is about 2 days.
The same box sent the sent way with just insurance for $1200 is $64.95. $13.70 is the cost of the insurance. So for $2.10 more, and using special tape, you get special handling and care.

Wow. I didn't know it was that cheap. Yes, it actually costs more to send it registered for smaller $ amounts, but for big $ items, it's worth it.
SO, yes there is more you can do. $2 for it going under lock and key.
Copied here from a seperate post to add to our postal information.

Thank you,
Gerry Fredette
Williams, AZ
Home of the Historic Grand Canyon Railroad

If you don't have your Location listed in your User Control Panel, why not take a second and update it? It will let your trading partners know where you are from the beginning.

Lower Rating ships/pays first.

My Refs: ref_view.php?user_id=14243

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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by Adunaphel » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:27 pm

Are you allowed to open the box and inspect the items inside before you pay for it?
My Bartertown References.

"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by kturock » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:46 am

No.
That's why I say inspect the outside and listen to the inside.

Once you open anything, a letter or package, you've accepted it.
Thats why you can't send things back 'refused, return to sender' if you've opened it. [like cd's, dvds, books and such.] You can only 'refuse' unopened things.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by starslayer » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 pm

Dont agree to pay a low ref trader first. Buying isnt different than trading. Dont feel safe, dont do it.
I look at it this way- If he cant trust me with 5 years here and 350+ refs, how can I trust him with 5 months here and 10 refs. Doesnt make sense.

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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by reegsk » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:24 pm

I would definitely agree, ss, but I think kt is speaking more to people with lower refs dealing with others that have lower refs.

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by kturock » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:16 pm

No, I was speaking to everyone.
1st off, we all were new traders.
2nd, we just had a serious problem with a trader with high[er] rating.

So how do you buy something, especially a higher dollar value item?

New trader, we'll call Joe, wants to get out of 40k. He's getting married, his job has increased his work hours, there is no local gaming group. He's played a while and has 5000k points of minis. All are in good shape. He wants to sell them to pay bills. He's willing to split up the army, but not into small pieces or singles; just units. He's offering a good deal.

We have an experienced or semi-experineced trader who's looking to buy; either for another army or maybe to use as parts or for a friend.

I don't care how high of refs you have, you're still an unknown; especially to a new trader.

So how does he sell them to you?

With C.O.D. you don't pay until you get th box. At least you get a box. Yes, he can send you a box of crap minis, broken pieces, poorly painted or even a box of rocks; but at least you get something. That can happen with trades. That can happen on Ebay. We've had how many people file BTR saying they got nothing, after they sent the money, or even paid with paypal. If there's no money in the paypal account, there's no way to get it back.

You can file mail fraud. The package has insurance and d/c.

It's an option for people who refuse to pay 1st to a lower trader, or ship 1st when selling.

If you don't want to be flexible, that's your option. Nothing says you have to buy from anybody.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by kturock » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:17 pm

EDIT: somehow b-town is still hiccuping.. 1st it loses all the info, then it posts it twice.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by montaa » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:25 pm

Do the COD rates include the actual shipping of the product? Or are those the charges for COD service alone?
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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by kturock » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:44 pm

C.O.D. is like d/c and insurance; it's an extra service. Shipping is based on size, distance and weight. How can a preset chart include that?

C.O.D. includes insurance. If you pay for the postage online, you get free d/c anyway.

SO yes, it's more expensive than just shipping with d/c alone, or d/c & insurance, but you have the peace-of-mind as a seller to get paid and as a buyer to get it delivered.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by Ironhide » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:04 pm

Uh...gee...umm...hasn't C.O.D. been around since, like, forever?! I remember when C.O.D. was the preferred method of ordering out of catalogs.
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kturock ( 566 )
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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by kturock » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:38 pm

Ironhide wrote:Uh...gee...umm...hasn't C.O.D. been around since, like, forever?! I remember when C.O.D. was the preferred method of ordering out of catalogs.

Yups...It's been sorta replaced by ordering on the phone and online with charge cards.

Some local businesses used to only be able to order that way, like the FLGS.
Heh, I was called a Grognard. ;-)
MY ALWAYS TRADE LIST: Scar Weaver, wmeredith, bloodstrike, tionas, wetstone, Frank Austin, akum, SW-DABOSS, Galador, nahatley, Joeb, Squeakula, mongse, con-fusion, basaint, jugglingfool, IsaiahTheBarbarian, Purple40k, Standard of War, BA-Best .

USPS Postal Inspectors: 1-877-876-2455
USPS complaint center delivery problem, lost mail, track & confirm, etc. 1-800-275-8777

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Re: How to buy from a new or low ref trader, safely.

Post by EZ mac » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:32 am

kturock wrote:
Ironhide wrote:Uh...gee...umm...hasn't C.O.D. been around since, like, forever?! I remember when C.O.D. was the preferred method of ordering out of catalogs.

Yups...It's been sorta replaced by ordering on the phone and online with charge cards.

Some local businesses used to only be able to order that way, like the FLGS.
We do COD at my games store for wizards and GW and maybe a few random distributors.

It is definantly the safetest way to ship but it is a pain if the truck driver is late or you are not home/ at the buisness because the truck driver will take the box with them instead of leaving it say next door and have them sign for it. We have had ups try to deliver a box Full of magic boxes durring a release only to have it be cod and us not there (it was before we opened) and they took it to the next town (30mins away) in their warehouse and we had to drive out and pick it up the next day (Friday).

So yeah make sure u will be home or are willing to go get the box from wherever.
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