Send cash to new traders first?

[blackspade]

Has anyone else noticed a rash of posts by traders with no ratings (or less than 10) requiring that cash/MO be sent prior to sending figures?
I know that there is no rule that the lower rated trader send first, but I for one have worked hard to get my rating and I can't say that I'm inclined to send unrecoverable money to someone who has no street cred around here.
I immediately get suspicious when I see these posts, and while likely unwarranted, I will not trade/buy from these folks.
I suspect that I am not the only one and unfortunately, these traders are missing out on sales or trades that they might have otherwise have made.
That said, if it works, carry on.

[Adunaphel]

I couldn't agree with you more. This is probably my biggest pet peeve about the site. Somehow, somewhere, somewhen, somebody got the idea that if you are selling your stuff you can circumvent all common sense and ask well established traders to send money first to newbie traders.

I had hoped that the_trader finally killed that whole idea, but it rolls ever onward. If you are thinking of sending money first to a trader with a low rating, then I have a bridge that I would like to sell to you. You also should take a LONG look at the_trader debacle. How the_trader has not made "Hall of Shame" status is a bit beyond me.

The problem is, that IF the new trader is really legitimate then they are really missing out on the most reliable sales that they can get on this site. I have tried to explain this to some of the folks who do this but to no avail.

The only way that I will send money first to a trader here is: A) if they have a higher trade rating or B) I have traded with them before and trust them.

I personally would STRONGLY suggest to EVERY trader to NOT send money first to traders who have a lower rating. Obviously, this is not a rule here, but selling/buying should be exactly the same as trading. The "normal" rules that most of us go by should be followed.

Karl

[mrrshann618]

I've also noticed alot of people lately pointing towards thier Ebay, or other trade sites as references on how trustworthy they are.
Sorry pal, This isn't <insert name of site>, this is Bartertown. I don't trust your BTown references on Ebay... There is "less" protection here.
Trading cash for models is still a trade. It is simply a universally recognized, pre-set standard of bartering.
I've personally told those individuals that I'm no longer intrested, or I've completely insisted that they send first, and let them end the trade.

I know alot of people spout this, "I've had to earn my rep, I've earned it by being a good trader and dealing fairly" Personally I'm not about to be taken by a potential scam if I can at all help it.

[Massawyrm]

For a long time I was in the camp of $$$ = Sale, not a trade and refused to do any $$$ sales on this site as a result of the general attitude. But seeing what happened with the_trader and other scammers, it really is understandable and I've had to go that way myself. I think the biggest turnoff to the argument is the attitude on the side of longterm BTowners who do a great job cementing their position but not explaining it to the newer members.

The main thing new BTers need to understand is that this is a BARTER site, not a SALE site. It comes with its own advantages and disadvantages that make it very different from sales sites:

Pros
No listing fees!
Simple, upfront rating system
Lax rules and regulations
ability to incorporate multiple forms of payment into a single transaction (goods and money for goods)
Easy to avoid being scammed (choosing to do business only with long established traders)
Ability to set and control your own price
No "competition" to speak of (we don't have price wars or spoilers)
Judicious squad of mods who keep bitter squabbling to a minimum

Cons
Newer BTers need to ship/pay first for established traders
Smaller audience/customer base
Occasionally have to deal with finicky traders

Are you new? Want to be paid upfront? Then why are you selling here rather than ebay? Because of the pros of this site? Then you've got to deal with the cons. That means understanding that you will ship first before payment. Don't want to get screwed? Then sell only to established traders. Always offer photos before shipping to ascertain whether or not they are happy with the product - if they ship it back without an appropriate reimbursement after being offered photos (and you are not in the wrong), leave negative feedback. If they do ship it back, at least give them a neutral and say so. While it may seem unfair or a pain to have to wait for your money, BT works to the benefit of traders, not against them. You'll realize after a while that these are protections for both you and your trading partner. I've had well over 80 successful trades here at BT and never had cause to fill out or receive a BTR. Wish I could say that about Sales sites.

But I swear, if I hear one more "Sorry man, the last time I shipped before payment the guy sent it back, so never again" I'm gong to scream. Got that three times in a week a few weeks back.

[HarlequinZero]

Honestly, I just don't deal with them. If that's their requirement I can't force them to change their mind. I imagine they'll either figure it out when no one's dealing with them or disappear.

I don't get bent out of shape about it.

-HZ

[JohnHwangBT]

If you're a new trader, selling to an non-established Btowner, get the cash before shipping.

It's one thing for an established 100+ trader to request minis before paying. It's quite another for a n00b with a 4 ranting to request the same.

[starslayer]

Never pay a new trader first. A good deal isnt agood deal if you dont get what you paid for.

The_Trader should have taught everyone a lesson. What happened to that guy in the end??? Nothing! He got away with it. Dont make yourself a victim.

Ive been here awhile & have a decent # of trades/sales. Ive never been ripped off. Why?? One big reason- I wont pay un-established traders first. If you have about half my (score 150 or so) I feel you've paid your dues & proven yourself. But a guy with a 4 rating asking me to pay first just cracks me up.

[kturock]

All I have to say in the matter is a quote from the movie "The Sting".
"You can't cheat an honest man."

I feel the same holds true for those who were ripped-off by the 'Bernie Maynoff' types. If a deal sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[starslayer]

Greetings fellow Btowners.

Ive been seeing a couple new members who want payment first, no matter the rating. Reason- "they got ripped off in the past". Its funny when you ask for a link to the thread they opened about it ,or any details, they dont have any.... hmmmm.

FACT- If you are new with a low rating you have a snowballs chance in hell of getting paid hundreds of dollars for your army by an established trader. Try Ebay.

Sorry for the reality check & bad news.

Anyone else get these "sob stories"??? IMHo its an excuse to get around the "system" & get paid first.

Cheers!
Starslayer

[porkuslime]

I had hoped that the_trader finally killed that whole idea, but it rolls ever onward. If you are thinking of sending money first to a trader with a low rating, then I have a bridge that I would like to sell to you. You also should take a LONG look at the_trader debacle. How the_trader has not made "Hall of Shame" status is a bit beyond me.
Karl

Karl.. allow me to show..
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=76740

He is the top of the Hall at the moment.

Also, a reminder to all.. it will NEVER be a rule of the site who pays/trades first. Convention and general practice, yes. Rule.. nope.

I blame kids these days.. always wanting their instant gratification... lol.

There are, to be sure, some quite wonderful people who truly deserve getting 400 bucks for toy models, and the models may indeed be worth the cost. Trust on the Internet is flexible and I can understand those who want to protect themselves though.

[Adunaphel]

Jim, did you guys just move the_trader there?
Or have I just been having one of my geriatric moments and missed the thing?

I know that John had tried to start a thread on the_trader in the hall of shame but it got locked. I don't see that thread anymore...

I understand why there will never be hard and fast rules for the site. It's a site that caters to all of our tastes.

Just yesterday I tried to talk a newer trader into shipping first. He didn't bite. He believes that paypal insures his safety as a seller. I told him to be careful and to not put too much faith in paypal. Not much else I could tell him.

I know that it's a scary proposition for a newer trader. And I am hoping that with some experiences here and learning how things work some of them will come around. If not... Oh well, there are a lot of fish in this sea.

Karl

[porkuslime]

Jim, did you guys just move the_trader there?
Or have I just been having one of my geriatric moments and missed the thing?

I know that John had tried to start a thread on the_trader in the hall of shame but it got locked. I don't see that thread anymore...

Nope.. been there for a month or 2.. at least since early May.. I went in and renamed all the threads to include real world names at that time

I understand why there will never be hard and fast rules for the site. It's a site that caters to all of our tastes.

Just yesterday I tried to talk a newer trader into shipping first. He didn't bite. He believes that paypal insures his safety as a seller. I told him to be careful and to not put too much faith in paypal. Not much else I could tell him.

I know that it's a scary proposition for a newer trader. And I am hoping that with some experiences here and learning how things work some of them will come around. If not... Oh well, there are a lot of fish in this sea.

Karl

I have gotten lucky with some new traders... I met them locally.. lol.. in person.

-P

[govannon]

I have gotten lucky with some new traders... I met them locally.. lol.. in person.

-P

I thought this was a trade site....not a dating site.

[blackspade]

Ouch!

I have gotten lucky with some new traders... I met them locally.. lol.. in person.

-P

I thought this was a trade site....not a dating site.

[HarlequinZero]

I have gotten lucky with some new traders... I met them locally.. lol.. in person.

-P

I thought this was a trade site....not a dating site.

Zing!